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- Vendor Report

Fellow Members,
I have been very hesitant to post this experience with one of our vendors and now do so only after more than five months of waiting and unfulfilled promises. In November of 2006 I ordered a Model 7000 action, 2 barrels, Jewell trigger, HS Precision BDL bottom metal and detachable 5 round magazine, and 30-minute scope base from Candi at Lawton Machine and was given a quoted price.
After several months of dealing with another vendor over his failure to deliver the stock he had been paid for, I finally received the barreled action and extra barrel from Lawton. When I called to inquire about the remainder of the order, I found out that evidently “Candi” had realized she had drastically misquoted the pricing of the accessories, and had evidently altered the computer records to indicate that these items had not been paid for.
I spoke with Barney in July, 2007, Barney explained what the records indicated I had paid for and that there was an excess in my payment to supply a Shilen trigger but not a Jewell, in fairness to him, he had been out of town when the original order had been placed and only had their copy of the order to go by. Barney told me that if he did not have the trigger in stock, it would take 2 – 3 weeks to ship.
I called Candi in September to enquire about the trigger; she said “things have been crazy around here and that she would get the trigger right out to me”, on October 20th. I sent an email to Lawton informing them it had now been four,4) months since the trigger had been promised and that I was abandoning the project rifle. I requested they send me a refund check instead.
On October 23rd. I received a reply from Candi apologizing for the delay along with a promise to mail a check the next day. I have still not received the check, nor a response to the last email regarding it. To say that I am disappointed with my experience would be an understatement. This may be just an isolated incident, but it has caused me to believe otherwise and possibly forewarn other members.
 
Thank You for posting this. You have every right in the world to be dis-satisfied if this is true, which I am not contesting.
 
I don't care much for "negative" reports about site advertisers, but sure do commiserate with your frustration. I was flat out lied to several times by one of the most "famous" gunsmiths in the country. Your post will at least give potential customers a heads-up to get their orders clearly understood.

Reminds me of seeing all the pickups around my area with faded signs on the doors saying "Joe's Carpentry", etc., all businesses that have long since gone defunct. Turns out the guys are great carpenters but poor businessmen. I hope if that is the case with Mr. Lawton that he will make a way to get a good "business manager" to handle the details, because I see lots of good reports about his products.

Seems most of the small shops struggle with "customer relations", which can take a tremendous amount of time -- and when they're talking they're not building.

Let's hope this incident has a happy ending ... and that you finally get the "rifle of your dreams".
 
This business should not be handled this way either. It takes the same amount of effort to tell a potiential customer the truth as it does a lie. If a vendor cannot meet a deadline, he should have anough gall to tell anybody when he could meet it and then work towards that goal. Sometimes you think that once they get your money it don't really matter anymore. This business is suppose to be fun not disappointing. Vendors TAKE NOTE. Bill
 
Well i seem to be in an even worse state than Freestate101 and with the same company.
I inquired back in June as to delivery time on actions 7500 series and was quoted 2.5 to 3 months so ordered and paid for 6 actions + rails + triggers both Jewel and Timney Tactical it is like pulling teeth trying to get replies to emails as to progress have had to resort to getting a friend in Texas to ring because of our time differences.
The problem is Our permit to Import expires on the 6th of December so their Export permit will also become Null and Void so do tell the customers we will just have to go through the whole system again and wait at least another 2 months for clearance etc or Just give up and cancel everything and try another maker like stiller.
You would think a company with an order in excess of $5,000 that is on a export time line would push it up the line to get it completed and away. Which every way i go now i stand to loose money as i have had the money outlaid for 6 months and who knows the people who want these actions have barrels ready and waiting and no actions need to start a local company here. Anyone interested.
 
Update: I received a call from Candi yesterday, the poor girl was almost in tears. She apologized profusely and said she had mailed a check previously, and had failed to follow up with me when she noticed the check had not been cashed. She promised to get another check out to me today, I imagine Barney really laid it to her when he either read or was informed about my posting. The sad thing is, it appears I'm not the only one who has suffered this fate. I have received over a dozen replies from the different forums, all with similar stories. I hope Barney can straighten this out, I know from experience what damage one uncaring employee can do to your business reputation.

Jim
 
The proper way to get exactly what you asked and paid for is to back it up in writing. I will deal with a person on the phone, inform them not to begin work until they receive my fax., place an order, and then follow up with a fax that begins with:

Dear xxxx,
Per our conversation of x/x/2007 I am sending this to confirm the details of my order.
1) Jiffy Barrel Co. is to provide me with,1) 24" Super Match 3 groove barrel with a xx contour, 1 in 14" rate of twist, chambered in .243 A.I. with a .270 neck diameter with an 11 degree target crown. The barrel shall be bead blasted and pre-fit for a Savage action. The price, as quoted to me by xxxxx, is $xxx.xx. Do not hesitate to contact me @xxx-xxx-xxxx if there are any problems or questions with this order.
Sign and date the fax.


This is an example but you get the general idea. Most faxes will generate a sheet that confirms the message was sent and received with no problems. If you want to be certain, call the company to ensure they received your fax and document who you talked to, date and time. You now have a legal contract that keeps everybody straight and if you have problems you have a document that will have leverage in the legal arena.
Chino69
 
Chino69,

An excellent suggestion that everyone should heed. I've been handling my orders to vendors that way for several years on the advice of my wife who is the county purchasing agent. It's sad that things have come to this, but the shooting industry is far from the only one that has this same problem.

Guys, don't rely on telephone conversations. Put it in writing! After the initial order document every correspondence whether it's by phone, fax, or e-mail and make sure to include the name of the person whom you've spoken with along with the date and time. Confirm your convesation with a fax. If the vendor quotes a delivery time make sure that you include it in your initial order and write that "Time is of the essence in this order". Just including that one sentence will save your butt if you ever have to go to court. It tells a judge that the vendor has quoted a specific delivery time and that you consider it as binding.

Things happen, but when you keep getting a train of excuses it's best to cut your losses immediately instead of allowing yourself to get strung along forever on a project that may never be completed.
 
chino69 said:
The proper way to get exactly what you asked and paid for is to back it up in writing. I will deal with a person on the phone, inform them not to begin work until they receive my fax., place an order, and then follow up with a fax that begins with:

Dear xxxx,
Per our conversation of x/x/2007 I am sending this to confirm the details of my order.
1) Jiffy Barrel Co. is to provide me with,1) 24" Super Match 3 groove barrel with a xx contour, 1 in 14" rate of twist, chambered in .243 A.I. with a .270 neck diameter with an 11 degree target crown. The barrel shall be bead blasted and pre-fit for a Savage action. The price, as quoted to me by xxxxx, is $xxx.xx. Do not hesitate to contact me @xxx-xxx-xxxx if there are any problems or questions with this order.
Sign and date the fax.

I recently began sending all of my orders in writing after a similar problem with another vendor. I spell everything out down to the minute detail and leave nothing to chance. Hard for a gunsmith to dispute what was said when I've got a copy of my letter.

And I don't even bother calling...delivery estimates are never met. From barrel manufacturers to stock manufacturers to gunsmiths, everything is always 30 percent to 100 percent longer than estimated. I am pleasantly surprised each time I receive good to average customer service in this industry.
 
Thanks guy's,chino69, Spotcheck Billy, and palma), that's great advice! This was my venture into building my first custom rifle by ordering all the parts myself, wish I'd of had that advice before I placed the orders, but a hard lesson has been learned. From now on I'm Savage all the way! Order my barrels and stocks 6 months in advance, and install them myself. I don't know weather Candi was the final problem, but I do understand that blame rolls down hill most of the time.

Jim
 
Well when we order from Australia we supply a written order with copy of dealers licence also our Permit to Import so they can apply for a permit to Export or what ever it is over there.
This was all supplied back in July straight after i ordered By email everything was send registerd mail as they had to be originals.
Now i cant even get a reply I realize you have just had Thanks Giving But fair go looks like i will have to stay up till wee hrs of the morning and see if i can actually get to speak to Barney Himself.
4 or 5 weeks ago they supposedly had been moved to the front of the line. I have kept all emails with all promises and the original quote of 2.5 to 3 months.
I can understand some delays when out source in some of the work but 3 months on a order that has a cut off date that is know right from the outset is bullshit.
The barrel companys that i have dealt with have been terrific PAC-NOR being a standout the last order was for 3 barrels and was quoted 8 weeks i think they were here in 6 so have orders for another six.
I am not a dealer, I am a full time carer & dissabled X pro fisherman who loves shooting i work through a dealership who havent got time or the patience to deal with importing specialized gear so i put up the money and time etc the barrels go to the people who want them at cost anything that has to come through the dealership has a charge for the use of the dealers licence and the paperwork etc once it comes into the country so they make something out of it i make nothing and if i can find an action supplier that can supply on time and at a reasonable cost i will be dealing with them .
 
NOTICE: I received a refund check from Candi @ Lawton Machine yesterday, Nov. 30, 2007. I believe the responses to my postings had a direct bearing on the positive outcome of this transaction. I would like to extend my heartfelt thanks to all who posted, and to any who worked behind the scene but did not post.

Jim Berry
 
Well the countdown has started.
I got up at 4.30 Am so i could ring Lawtons workshop in working hrs and spoke to Mr Barney Lawton who assures me that the 6 actions will get away before the permit expires on the 6th.
Now if they don`t i will have to reapply this end and send to that end wait 2 months for a clearance. But the thing is only three triggers can be supplied i ordered and paid for 3 Jewel BR and 3 Timney Tactical and have been told by Candi that the 3 Timney Tacticals havent arrived have been on order 5 months so have emailed Timney direct to see if there is a problem waiting to see. If the Triggers donot come with the actions i have to get a seperate Permit to import and send it over and all the bullshit i can see why some businesses refuse to import stuff for people. Anyway if the Actions are in transit by the 5th the firearms branch & weapons licencing will give us an extension on our existing permit to come through customs so 3 days and counting. WATCH THIS SPACE>
 
Aussie Bob:

Midway has the Timney Tactical triggers in stock...as do several other vendors. Hope this helps. -Al
 
It is true that nothing will be completed correctly as communicated over a phone. I don't give business to those who won't communicate through email. DO NOT TRUST ANYONE WHO INSISTS ON PHONE COMMITMENTS ONLY.

But I've still been screwed by the best, and all I can do is prove to them, through their own emails, that they are on the wrong side of the line.
You will never get a gun built by sueing everyone who screws you though. It'll just cost a fortune, take a great deal of time, and all without a successful ending.

I think this is why there are so many gun builders out there. They can lie, cheat and steal, without accountability.
Many times shooters will not confess to being screwed, and some will even attack others for declaring problems with a vendor they used. Often they deny to the end, that these problems are happening. Delusions of granger ..
Look around, you can see them here.

Threads like this represent the only true avenue to accountability. It's the only way to fix things.
Thanks Freestate for sharing your experience.
 
Aussie_bob said:
Well the countdown has started.
I got up at 4.30 Am so i could ring Lawtons workshop in working hrs and spoke to Mr Barney Lawton who assures me that the 6 actions will get away before the permit expires on the 6th.
Now if they don`t i will have to reapply this end and send to that end wait 2 months for a clearance. But the thing is only three triggers can be supplied i ordered and paid for 3 Jewel BR and 3 Timney Tactical and have been told by Candi that the 3 Timney Tacticals havent arrived have been on order 5 months so have emailed Timney direct to see if there is a problem waiting to see. If the Triggers donot come with the actions i have to get a seperate Permit to import and send it over and all the bullshit i can see why some businesses refuse to import stuff for people. Anyway if the Actions are in transit by the 5th the firearms branch & weapons licencing will give us an extension on our existing permit to come through customs so 3 days and counting. WATCH THIS SPACE>
\

This is the thing that makes you wonder about why in the world these orders could not have been shipped and taken care of in a timely manner. If a company can "tighten up" that quick and make the order happen in short order, then the order could have been filled long ago and none of this would even be going on. One could not blame this guy if he never even thought about doing business with this company again. This is simply wrong and that is the only label one can apply.
 
Yes, Butch
Bruce Thom at Bat Machine has been for me a standard in customer consideration and ethics.
I don't assume He's perfect, or that none of his customers end up screwed in some way. I just feel fortunate that he's met every expectation I have had. So he get's my business until otherwise.
Others who have done me well:
Nightforce
OpticsPlanet
Leupold custom shop
Premeir Reticles
Sinclair
Lock Stock & Barrel
Border Barrels
Lija Barrels
McBros Rifle Co
JLC Precision
James Kolbe gunsmithing

I'd love to list those who have flat out screwed me, but it would just be deleted, as it would affect many who support and are promoted by this site.
 
Thanks AlNyhus i have also copied and pasted the section off the home page off the forum and sent it to Candi at Lawtons these triggers were also paid for months ago.
And as for dealing with them again, I will, BUT, the people who want the actions will be putting THEIR money up front not mine but i will be trying to convince them to buy elsewhere.
I have people who want some Stiller Drop port actions but there is no way i will be ordering or doing anything till this order is here and sold and i have my money back.
This order initially was for 3 and i had interest in three more and was told if they were in before December they would take them, well that is past but i am pretty sure of getting rid of them as the price will be right., My Cost) the dealership & GST is the only cost this end.
 

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