Vel. nodes with the 105 bergers?

[deadlyswift]

Is anyone finding a vel. node at or around 2820fps with the Berger 105s. Normaly I would be doing a ladder test at 500 yrds to work up loads, but not able to shoot at that range untill deer season is out. So I have to shoot at another place where I'm limited to 150yrds, but shot at 100 just to keep things on a even keel.

I'm shooting.
6br
105 Berger
CCI BR4
Varget
bullet touching the lands
28in Broughton 5c barrel.
1in8 twist.

I can post a pic if need but here is what is. at 29.6grs of varget, and getting a avg of 2820fps for 5 shots went into .389 group. (no pressure signs at all) Now there was one shot to the right that caused this group to not be in the mid to low .2s. The one shot that got out to the right was a shot that I called. I picked up my head just as I broke the shot, and the butt of the stock moved left just a hair. I caught this mistake just as the shot broke, and before I even got back down on the scope I was saying Damn Out loud!

Here is what I'm trying to accomplish very quickly. I have a F class match next weekend. I hadn't plan on shooting this match with my 6br because it was until just recently found out it has been moved from 1000yrds to 500yrds. I kinda wanted to shoot at 1000 just because 1000 is just so knew to me, but it does open the window of opportunity to shoot my 6br witch is a custom 6br at 500 in F/open rather than shooting my Factory 308 at 1000 in FTR. I haven't shot my 6br much so, I'm trying to work something up quick, and just go see what my 6br is going to do at longer ranges, or mid range anyway....? I worked up to 30.5gr of varget with no signs of pressures, and vel. are running at 2910fps. Once going past 29.6 I could tell I was leaving the node at 2820fps. Now coming into 2910fps groups are tighting back up. So I think I'm entering another node? Since I'm not getting any pressure signs at 30.5 I will keep going up in charge. (slowly) I have read much info about there being a node at or around 2950fps? So am I heading in the right direction for a quick load work up? I'm aware that 2820fps is plenty of vel. to shoot at 500, but I'm hoping I can shoot the 105s at the highest vel node so that I can just buck the wind better? What would some of you do? I'm thinking of going back and trying the 29.6 again, but jamming the bullet, but I think this will change pressures and maybe put me out of the node that appears to be at 2820fps? Should I just go up in charge slowly to see if I hit another node, or am I wasting my time? Should I stop and go with 2820fps and start loading for my match or tweak just a bit more on Sun and see where I end up, to best prepare for my match next weekend? (Note) I have one day left (Sun) to get a load shooting to take to a match. What would you do?
Thanks
Mark

 

[queen_stick]

I can't answer your question about how these bullets hold up at long ranges at 2820MV. However I can tell what not to do...

As you mentioned in the last part of your post, there's a published accuracy node at 2950. I decided that I was going to aim for that node while doing load development at 300 yards. I used different powders, different primers, and kept the Berger 105 vld. After many combinations of powder and primers I found a load that give me .17" of vertical at 300 yards (that's not official of course, but it's damn close). It was a very stout load of RL15. I then went to Williamsport and shot all over the paper with that load at 1k... it was no good. Without using a chronograph I did some development at 1k. I found a load that was about .5grs less than what I needed to get 2950. To this day, I have not chronographed that load that has since won me a few relays (in fact, I won a relay at each match I went to this year... not trying to talk myself up... I seriously believe it was beginners luck. This was my first year shooting competitively) To be honest, I don't really care what the MV is, as long as it keeps hammerin' out at the target.

The point of my rambling above... go out and find what shoots, then check the MV so that you know what it is. Then you can calculate wind drift and what not. Don't strive for a specific MV only, as you will likely waste a bunch of time and components.

By the way, if your Broughton barrel is like mine, that gun will shoot lights out! My 6br bench gun (28in Broughton 5c barrel. 1in8 twist) is the most accurate gun I've ever touched. I also have not shot a PPC, or any short-range rig for that matter, so I may be going overboard with that statement

My gun shot very well with Varget, but when I shot a 6" group (10 shots) at 1K using RL15, It was hard for me to turn back to Varget. I also have not had much time to play with loads at the 1k range, because it's such a long damn drive to get there. I'd like to give Varget another try just to see what happens.

You may have to take that load that shot well at 100, and just take a chance with it at your 500yd match. If you have access to 150yds, I would use it. The further you can go the better you can estimate what will happen at longer ranges.

edit: If I had to guess... I would say I'm in the range of 2900 to 2920 for MV...

Walt

 

[RDavies]

The nodes are about 130 fps apart, so yes, there is a node at around 2820 fps, another at 2950 and another at around 3080. My BR (and 284) liked 2820, fps, Dasher likes 2950 and 6x47 likes 3080 fps (and even 3200 fps with lighter bullets) as ballpark figures. This is with 28-30" barrels.

 

[Erik Cortina]

Take the 2820 fps. load and give it hell!

500 yards is fairly easy to load for, meaning, if it shoots that good at 100 it should do good enough at 500 yards, now, if you want to go to 1000 yards, that's another story!

Or, do like I do, I use the first match with a new rifle/load as a load development match.

You will more than likely shoot 3 strings of fire, load the 2820 fps. load for 2 of them, and then load the 2950 for the last string, that way you will know which one shoots better. Ask whoever is in the pits pulling your target to save the targets for you if possible so you can evaluate the targets. After the match is over, hopefully you will have a very good idea of what works and what doesn't. If you are not a good wind reader (who is?) I would look more at the vertical than anything else, if one load shows less vertical the the other then I usually go with that load. And the next match I will take which ever load I picked and then fine tune it, I may do different seating depths or powder charge at the next match. I usually have a good load after two matches.

The good thing about my process is that you practice wind reading and work up a load at the same time, instead of just waiting for a calm day to get to the range to work up loads, you don't learn anything about reading the wind that way!

 

[deadlyswift]

Cf500,
Your are just about on the money! Today's succession put me at 2930-2940fps. With 30.7gr of varget. Bullet touching the lands. Same load 3 times printed .402, .310, and .299 at 100yrds. I think anything under .5moa is worth taking. We will see how well things end up. One thing is for sure here. This barrel wants nothing jammed!! For what ever reason when shooting anything jammed, vertical was awful!

X3M Hunter,
I like the way you think! The good thing is there is a practice session Fri. Then 2x500 sat 3x500 sun. All this was going to be shot at 1000, and I was going to shoot my .308 in FTR. The match was changed to 500yrds for the national guard is going to have helicopters parked on the 600yrd line at camp butner so the match was moved to 500. This give me the idea of working up something quick for my 6br. I feel good that in 2 range sessions I have found something that seems to shoot good, but going from 100 to 500 is the kicker! Either way like you said, I'm going to take my 105s and 30.7gr of varget and give them hell! I'll deal with the wind as it comes! In the end I think I will learn a lot if I pay attention!
Thanks for the post guys!!
Mark

 

[jdfletch]

Mark,

My load for the 6mmBR with 30" 8tw barrel, Varget and 105VLD bullets 0.015" jammed is 2820fps. It has shot in the high .1's and low .2's (10 shot groups) @ 100 yards. At 1000 yards, my vertical is under 1MOA. I shoot prone with sling, and I can't hold better than 0.25-0.5 MOA. Made High Master with it at Long Range. So, 2820fps is good to go! Also, point the bullets for long range. It didn't matter much at 600 and less, but at 1000 yards, vertical went from 1.5 MOA to 0.75 MOA after pointing with identical loads.

Doug

 

[deadlyswift]

Well the 30.7 gr of varget seems to be a good place. Today was day one, and my scores were 192-3 193-4 and 196-7. Not the best scores for a 6br. But I'll take them considering I only had two range sessions to work up a load and then get 200rnds loaded up in less than a week. At the same time working 10hr days. So doesnt look like I can complain too much. If I can do the same or better tomorrow I will be very satisfied!
Thanks
Mark

 

[Erik Cortina]

Did you lose points due to elevation or wind? If you lost more to wind then keep shooting that load. Otherwise, some load tuning needs to be done. Those are good scores though, I say keep on keeping on! Good luck... Keep it in the "X" ring!

 

[Obtunded]

Berger makes 3 different 105 grain 6mm bullets, The hunting VLDs in several barrels of mine have all like being jammed 15 thou, and seem to be uber accurate at 2700, 2840 and 2900.

The boat tail match and the New "VLD's" have such a mediocre BC that I don't bother with them.

 

[dreever]

I'll second the Orange box hunting 105 VLD's. Better B.C. I'm running 30.5 grains of Varget, CCI 450, .013 into the lands at 2940 fps. and getting next to no vertical at 500 meters. This has been my go to load in three 6BR's with identical results.

Danny

 

[deadlyswift]

I am shooting the hunting vlds. Yes higher bc, like Danny said I as well am getting hardly any vertical with this load. All points drop were due to miss reading the wind. Scores today were 197x7 195-5 and then it went south. Completely my fault. I had a crossfire that cost me 10 points and a x. Last score was 184-4 what should have been a 194-5. I got in a hurry and wasnt paying attention and had a crossfire on my 2nd shot for record. Not sure of were I ended up for the whole weekend. Got aggravated with myself for the crossfire and didn't hang around to see any final tallied scores. I just have to wait until NSSC club put the results up on there website. I enjoyed myself and had some decent scores so all in all I do feel good about things.
Thanks
Mark