Varget vs Varget dilemma << Results, 30 June >>

[Alexander-M]

I suspect that I am not the first one who has been faced with this problem.

I have just enough Varget (of the lot I have been using) to load the rounds I need for my next match this coming Thursday, with enough powder left over for maybe ten extra rounds or so. However, three days later, on Sunday, there is another match I would like to shoot, but I will likely not be able to test rounds loaded with a new lot of Varget.

How unsafe would it be to load for the Sunday match using the same charge of Varget? My present .308 Win load for F-T/R is 44.20 gr Varget with Berger 185-gr Juggernauts, which yield a velocity of 2755 fps and an ES of 10 fps for 10 rounds, and no signs of over pressure.

If it were safe to use the same powder charge, what sort of variation could exist due to the two different Varget lots? Would it be just a velocity variation, or would I have to develop a different charge from scratch.

The Hogdon website stresses the uniformity between lots for the Extreme powders, such as Varget, but I would really appreciate your experiences in this regard.

Thanks!

Nando

 

[JamesnTN]

Re: Varget vs Varget dilemma

Why not chronograph a couple current charges with the lot you have now and do the same with the new lot and see what the differences are?

 

[watercam]

Re: Varget vs Varget dilemma

If nothing else, take a couple of rounds of the new lot to the Thursday match and blow them off at the end when heat is high and your chamber hot. If they do not show pressure signs and make the shot call, then go for it. If they show mild pressure, drop your load .3 - .5 grain and go for it. I could only make 43 grains of Varget with the Jugs for 2660 fps but they were very accurate and still bucked the wind better than the lighter bullets.

 

[savagedasher]

Re: Varget vs Varget dilemma

My 3 lots of varget had 55 FPS difference. Extreme powders don't change with temp But they can have different pressures.
I check each lot and mix them together and all the powder will be the same. My 4 last 8# cans of H4350 had 20 FPS . Even with that I mixed them. Larry

 

[Dos XX]

Re: Varget vs Varget dilemma

My last lot change was a 1/2 grain difference.

Can you shoot some after the match as was recommended above? Do you have unlimited sighters?

 

[Alexander-M]

Re: Varget vs Varget dilemma

I prefer not using brand new brass for a match, but to determine the issue of pressure and speed variation between lots, I guess the brand new Lapua brass I have would work fine, correct? I already have 100 such cases F/L sized, cleaned and primed that I can use for this.

I will load a few with the remaining powder from the current, 'old' lot, same 44.20 gr I have been using; and a few with the new lot, perhaps five each with 43.80, 44.00 and 44.20 grains, and go to the range tomorrow and measure their speed - of both old and new lots.

What do you think?

And thank you for your advise!

Nando

 

[Jdne5b]

Re: Varget vs Varget dilemma

While you're at it, I would go above 44.2 in your test loads just in case the new lot is slower.

 

[CharlieNC]

Re: Varget vs Varget dilemma

Whenever I get a new lot of powder I blend it with the existing blend. As long as you never run out of the existing blend, the new blend will always have some content of the very first lot you started out with. This eliminates the major step changes, and surprisingly I have not observed any performance differences in the running blend. This is a similar philosophy that is used for various materials in industry to minimize batch-to-batch differences.

 

[ShootDots]

Re: Varget vs Varget dilemma

Whenever I get a new lot of powder I blend it with the existing blend. As long as you never run out of the existing blend, the new blend will always have some content of the very first lot you started out with. This eliminates the major step changes, and surprisingly I have not observed any performance differences in the running blend. This is a similar philosophy that is used for various materials in industry to minimize batch-to-batch differences.

This is EXACTLY what I do and have NEVER experienced any problems.

 

[jlow]

Re: Varget vs Varget dilemma

I don’t know…. If he only has enough for one match, then he does not have a lot of the old lot which means IF the new lot is a lot hotter, it is not going to reduce it by much. Blending it now will likely screw up his most immediate match if it affects the accuracy node?

 

[shootnjunky]

Re: Varget vs Varget dilemma

Whenever I get a new lot of powder I blend it with the existing blend. As long as you never run out of the existing blend, the new blend will always have some content of the very first lot you started out with. This eliminates the major step changes, and surprisingly I have not observed any performance differences in the running blend. This is a similar philosophy that is used for various materials in industry to minimize batch-to-batch differences.

This is EXACTLY what I do and have NEVER experienced any problems.

explain how you blend??

 

[savagedasher]

Re: Varget vs Varget dilemma

Whenever I get a new lot of powder I blend it with the existing blend. As long as you never run out of the existing blend, the new blend will always have some content of the very first lot you started out with. This eliminates the major step changes, and surprisingly I have not observed any performance differences in the running blend. This is a similar philosophy that is used for various materials in industry to minimize batch-to-batch differences.

This is EXACTLY what I do and have NEVER experienced any problems.

explain how you blend??

Take all the Varget you have put it in a large container .Shake turn till it is all mixed and the powder will all be the same. Larry

 

[ShootDots]

Re: Varget vs Varget dilemma

Whenever I get a new lot of powder I blend it with the existing blend. As long as you never run out of the existing blend, the new blend will always have some content of the very first lot you started out with. This eliminates the major step changes, and surprisingly I have not observed any performance differences in the running blend. This is a similar philosophy that is used for various materials in industry to minimize batch-to-batch differences.

This is EXACTLY what I do and have NEVER experienced any problems.

explain how you blend??

Let's say I have 2 different lots of ANY powder, in this case Varget. Once I get down to about 1/4 to 1/3 of the can (a 1 pound can) I pour about 1/2 of the other can in with the "old" can. Then I pour the "mixed" powders back into the NEW case till it is over 1/2 full and "mix" (by rolling the can in my hands and tipping upside down and vice versa) >>then I do MOST of that can into the OLD can and do the same thing. Then ALL goes back into the NEW can and I mix that up and then use the powder. Takes about 3 minutes.

 

[shootnjunky]

Re: Varget vs Varget dilemma

that is what I thought and it seemed to make sense to make this a practice. I have a # left of my current lot and then have a new 8# one to start so how do you suggest going from 1# to 8#? It would seem to be quite diluted?

 

[ShootDots]

Re: Varget vs Varget dilemma

that is what I thought and it seemed to make sense to make this a practice. I have a # left of my current lot and then have a new 8# one to start so how do you suggest going from 1# to 8#? It would seem to be quite diluted?

If you can fit the 1 pound can in the 8 pounder, it's easy. Just take enough of the 8 pounder to fill the can of the 1 pounder and mix. Then you should be able to pour the whole thing back into the 8 pounder and mix. You will be good to go..

 

[Alexander-M]

Re: Varget vs Varget dilemma

Yes, I agree 100% with the mixing of the new-with-the-old when old gets down about 50%. BUT, as 'jlow' noted, I hardly had enough of the old to make the blend significant.

I'll watch this new lot, and when it gets down about 1/2, I will blend it with another new lot, which I already have.

While you're at it, I would go above 44.2 in your test loads just in case the new lot is slower.

Excellent point - I'll do that, and will report on what I learn tomorrow.

THX!!
Nando

BTW, and not related to the specific topic: When I was at Camp Atterbury this past weekend, I stopped by the Public Range, and the store there had all kinds of powders and primers. Most of the powder I saw was in the 8 lb containers, and they had plenty of Varget. I saw four containers on the shelves, which were rather high up. When I said I wanted to buy some, the lady clerk went in the back room and brought an unopened box with two containers, and there were more boxes yet! The price was $180.

 

[Mike402]

Re: Varget vs Varget dilemma

I have thought about mixing Varget as well, but the thing that stopped me was a conversation I had with a tech at Hodgon. Now I get that they will say not to do it no matter what strictly for liability purposes, but one thing he told me did make sense. He said that you'll never be able to get a 1 to 1 mixture of different powder lots, no matter how much you try to mix them. There will always be more of one lot in each and every load, which will make it less consistent than sticking with one lot. Made sense to me, and its one less thing to worry about when trying to reduce ES/SD.

 

[CharlieNC]

Re: Varget vs Varget dilemma

Mike I can tell you that we had no problems blending millions of pounds of stuff and its not as difficult as you may think. Shake the container in every direction as you slowly rotate it too. Of course there must be adequate open space for the powder to migrate easily as well.

 

[alf]

Re: Varget vs Varget dilemma


Not quite a million pounds of Varget....small batch of 48:

 

[1lnbrdg]

Re: Varget vs Varget dilemma

I work with extrudates, not gunpowder but the same shapes.

We blend all the time, most random blending possible is done thru a funnel and there has been a lot of research on it.

Don't think the powder manufacturer hasn't blended his powder before you received it either. And if he didn't, though the 1st portion of the lot would have a particular set of characteristics, the tail end of the same lot could be vastly different but all of it still in spec for that portion and for the whole lot.