Varget vs N140

[Texas Solo]

Getting what I feel is accelerated throat erosion on my 6 Dasher. Been using Varget with excellent results, but I hear that it's burn temps are high.
Considering a powder change to N140.
So, N140 vs Varget?

 

[mac86951]

Hard to say; the loads for my 223 are near as makes no difference equivalent between the two. Velocity seems to be ever so slightly reduced with N140, leading me to believe that the lot that I have is slightly cooler; but only just so. 25fps average difference on a 14sd load isn't what I'd call major change.


I do find n140 overall cleaner after the day is done.

Find some h4895 and try that (play the lottery too, cause if you find some you're lucky!)

-Mac

 

[LCazador]

N140 and Varget are listed #112 and #113 on the latest burn rate chart. So there's virtually no difference. I'd opt for Varget extreme spreads any day over N140, that's been my experience. Shoot slower and let that barrel cool off a bit more if you can. That's the best thing you can do to reduce throat erosion.

 

[Ccrider]

I shoot them both in a Dasher and a 6bra. Judging from what I see in the throat area, Varget burns hotter and I see more fire cracking and erosion with it.

As for accuracy, they both tune consistently. I would be comfortable shooting either one in the right barrel with the right bullet.

I see acceptable ES with both. N140 produces significantly slower velocities based on the lot that I am shooting.

 

[searcher]

Personally, I'd shoot whichever one shoots better in your barrel and not worry too much about which one provides more perceived throat erosion. There isn't enough difference between the two from my own experience - but I haven't run one powder against the other to the point of finishing off a barrel, either.

 

[Fuj]

Good friend of mine went to Reloder 15.5 in his Dasher and
liked it more then Varget. However that may be hard to find
as of late.

 

[distinguished]

My barrels are noticeably hotter when running Varget vs N140.

 

[TTE]

N140 and Varget are listed #112 and #113 on the latest burn rate chart.

In burn rates, that is correct (slowest to fastest)

FWIW
My powder temperature burn chart has N140 at 3720 and Varget at 4050. About a 300 degree difference.

 

[paperpuncher]

Good friend of mine went to Reloder 15.5 in his Dasher and
liked it more then Varget. However that may be hard to find
as of late.

15.5 shoots lights out in my dasher as well. I started using it mine when I put a new barrel on. Not sure if it’s the powder or the barrel but it cleans really fast and easy compared to the last barrel with Varget. Unfortunately it’s 15bucks more per pound than Varget or N 140

 

[BuffaloBill]

In burn rates, that is correct (slowest to fastest)

FWIW
My powder temperature burn chart has N140 at 3720 and Varget at 4050. About a 300 degree difference.

TTE,

Would you happen to have a link to the temperature burn chart you use?

 

[Ccrider]

In burn rates, that is correct (slowest to fastest)

FWIW
My powder temperature burn chart has N140 at 3720 and Varget at 4050. About a 300 degree difference.

So my subjective assessment that Varget runs hotter than N140 was correct. I believe H4895 also runs hotter. Not that it matters to me. I am concerned with what the target says.

 

[mgunderson]

You are sitting hairs. They make new barrels everyday and they wear out. How many rounds are you getting before the barrel is toast. Is the velocity going up or down. Give us just a little more.

 

[ebb]

I think not N140 burns cooler, cleaner, and lately cost less and is easier to find. I've used N165 in a 6.5-284 and want nothing else, as i use my powders up I will go to Vihtavuori for everything that is close enough to work well. Though it may be a long time till all my magnum slow burning powders are gone.

 

[Bill Norris]

I think not N140 burns cooler, cleaner, and lately cost less and is easier to find. I've used N165 in a 6.5-284 and want nothing else, as i use my powders up I will go to Vihtavuori for everything that is close enough to work well. Though it may be a long time till all my magnum slow burning powders are gone.

I'm favoring the V-V powders over Hodgdon these days as well. I am finding as good and in some cases better performance in my 243AI and 260AI. And V-V N130 is showing great results in the 30BRs. Sadly, V-V N133 acts as nervous as a whore in church in the 6PPC so far but I'm still working on it. I have not swapped over to V-V in my 6BRX but will do a powder test soon with VV-N140.

 

[Murray Brook]

TTE,

Would you happen to have a link to the temperature burn chart you use?

Found this on an old thread

 

[jxb]

a quick search on the forum for heat, looks like folks were getting burn/flame temps from QL. I haven't looked to see if GRT has it.

 

[Longtrain]

I used Varget and Norma 203B in my Dasher, barrels generally lasted about 2400 rounds. Not being able to find either of those powders I bought some N140, it is extremely accurate, barrels easier to clean, velocities are down a small amount, about 25 fps from a 28” barrel. The current barrel has about 1400 rounds and the fire cracking at the beginning of the barrel is much less then either of the former powders. We’ll see how that plays out. All in all I really like N140, compared to Varget I don’t see any good reason not to use it.

 

[Krogen]

a quick search on the forum for heat, looks like folks were getting burn/flame temps from QL. I haven't looked to see if GRT has it.

I agree the values look to come from Quickload. I didn't check every entry, but the handful I did check match up between the chart and Quickload. I'm out of my element, but I think it's a stretch to say the values for Heat of Explosion / Potential in Quickload (mapped to the table above) relate directly to chamber temperature. I expect the actual temperature is related to a number of other things like pressure which affects burn rate. FWIW, the definition in the Quickload manual is:



That relates to energy content in the powder charge independent of rate of dispersion and therefore irrelevant to temperature.

Disclaimer: I am not a ballistician, nor a physicist, just a mere engineer. Feel free to shoot down my armchair analysis.

 

[jxb]

I find the comparison temps interesting, assuming they are correct. Kinda like burn rate charts, I take it with a grain of salt, especially since a handful of burn rate charts will all say something different.

A while back I saw some posts on Accurate 2700 being much cooler burning and folks had switched to using it in the Swift in an attempt to slow throat erosion. The chart certainly seems to back up the assertion temps are lower.

I've tried it but far too soon to know if it helps but given the barrel seems to heat up about the same, I'm thinking maybe not. Sending a 40gr down the barrel at 4500fps is just hard on em regardless of slow fire and not letting them get too warm. What I liked most about 2700 is the cost, way cheaper than even H380 let alone many of the others.

As for Varget vs N140, I've been shooting Varget and I have N140 so might have to try some and see what differences I notice between them. I've always read they are mostly same same.

 

[TTE]

You are sitting hairs. They make new barrels everyday and they wear out. How many rounds are you getting before the barrel is toast. Is the velocity going up or down. Give us just a little more.

True, .... but with a not so fast my friend.

Order a barrel - 2 - 6 (or more) months
Having a smith chamber it - see above
Developing a new load - depending on where you live could be the same as above