Using Thunderbird T322 in .223??

[shooter115]

Hey guys, long time member, just don't post much. Question for y'all. Anyone here ever used Thunderbird T322 for loading .223? I just picked up (3) 8lb jugs of it on auction from a shooter that passed. I know this stuff is regarded as gold by 6PPC BR shooters, but powder in larger lots is still damn near impossible to come by in my neck of the woods and I need something to get my 3-gun ammo loaded for the 2015 season.

Now information on this stuff is kinda all over the board, from what I've been able to find. Some say the burn rate is close to H322 which would usually make it a little hot for heavy bullets in .223, but I've also found someone say it was like magic for their 77gr loads. I've also read that the burn rate is closer to TAC, which is generally known to work well for the heavier .223 bullets. Yes, I understand burn rate doesn't always correlate with how a particular powder/bullet is going to perform. Just looking for information from some of the fine, knowledgeable folks on this board.

So has anyone here actually used this mystical fairy dust to load 77gr bullets in .223? I know this is gonna make some folks cringe, but if it doesn't work well, I'm most likely going to end up using it to load 55gr FMJ's for hoser stages that don't have shots beyond 2-300 yards and some 50gr V-max loads for varmint hunting. Looks like it should be excellent for light bullets.

Any input is appreciated, Thanks

-Chris

 

[amlevin]

According to some of the Oldtimers I know (even older than me), the new LT32 is supposed to be a copy of the old T322. Just a little finer but performance characteristics are supposed to be the same.

More likely than not, LT32 load data would be a good place to start.

 

[shooter115]

Thanks amlevin. Was not even aware of LT32. I'll look into it.

 

[jimcasey01]

LT-32 in .223 it is great for lighter bullets. I have never tried it for 77 grain, only up to 69 grain. My experience, accuracy is very good, velocity really drops with the heaver bullets, there are probably better powder choices that will maintain a reasonable velocity. For lighter bullets up to low to mid 60 grains it is super accurate with good velocity. On light bullets it is phenomenal. If you do not want it, you will have no trouble disposing of it, for the 6mm PPC it is a dream come true.

 

[shooter115]

Low velocity with the heavies was what I was worried about. If that's the case, I'll just be loading my 50 and 55gr loads.

I know I could probably sell it, but then I still have the problem of how to load 5000 rounds with no powder. I generally try to get all my 3gun ammo loaded in the winter, so I don't have to worry about it once the shooting season starts. I'm down to my last 8 lbs of H335 that I use for light bullets now and that isn't going to make it far.

 

[jimcasey01]

Your 50-55 grain bullets should love it. I use it with 52 gr and it is almost point the rifle and the bullet finds the target center.

 

[shooter115]

Have you chrono'd any of you loads Jim?

 

[jimcasey01]

I typically shoot somewhat mild loads, so these may not be too impressive as for fps. These were from a 16" barrel, 53gr SMK at 2836 fps area worked good for me. I believe that SD was in the area of 8-10. No guarantees that these velocities will work in any other 16" barrel. From a 26" barrel I believe I was in the neighborhood of 3230 fps, with 8 fps and under SD. I don't believe I finished the load testing on the 26" barrel, so this was probably not as accurate as it could be. It was mainly barrel break in if I remember correctly. Memory is short term at my age.

 

[shooter115]

Okay Thanks. Impressive SD numbers. What was your charge weight to get there? Right now with H335 I'm getting about 3080 fps out of an 18" barrel. I'd like to try and stick with that velocity as it perfectly matches the drop reticle in my Burris MTAC 1-4 scope perfectly out to 500 yards and there's no dialing for elevation in 3-gun.

 

[jimcasey01]

Okay Thanks. Impressive SD numbers. What was your charge weight to get there? Right now with H335 I'm getting about 3080 fps out of an 18" barrel. I'd like to try and stick with that velocity as it perfectly matches the drop reticle in my Burris MTAC 1-4 scope perfectly out to 500 yards and there's no dialing for elevation in 3-gun.

No disrespect meant, but I think it is a poor option to use any ones load data from the internet, with the exception of the manufacturers. For that reason I will not give you load data. For all that you know, I could be some 12 year old "wannabe shooter", suggesting a load for you. I do not fit the latter description, but for safety sake, YOURS, please work up your own loads and use what is safe in your firearms. We have different chambers, different brass, different primers, different lots of powder, etc, etc. Be safe!

 

[shooter115]

Okay Thanks. Impressive SD numbers. What was your charge weight to get there? Right now with H335 I'm getting about 3080 fps out of an 18" barrel. I'd like to try and stick with that velocity as it perfectly matches the drop reticle in my Burris MTAC 1-4 scope perfectly out to 500 yards and there's no dialing for elevation in 3-gun.

No disrespect meant, but I think it is a poor option to use any ones load data from the internet, with the exception of the manufacturers. For that reason I will not give you load data. For all that you know, I could be some 12 year old "wannabe shooter", suggesting a load for you. I do not fit the latter description, but for safety sake, YOURS, please work up your own loads and use what is safe in your firearms. We have different chambers, different brass, different primers, different lots of powder, etc, etc. Be safe!

I hear what you are saying. I've been reloading for 20+ years and the last thing I'm going to do is take random guy off the Internets recipe and load it up without verifying data and working up to a certain load. Just trying to gather as much info as I can before I start load development since there no published data on this specific propellant. Also trying to get a feel for if I can hit my goal velocity with this powder or if I'd be better off selling it.

 

[jimcasey01]

Western Powders Reloading Data internet search, LT-32, should get you a starting point. Good luck.

 

[jimcasey01]

http://www.accuratepowder.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/WP_LoadSpec_1-23-14.pdf

 

[shooter115]

I looked up the load data for LT-32 right after i was aware of it. Thanks though. I meant there's no published data for the T-bird powder.

 

[Catfur]

I looked up the load data for LT-32 right after i was aware of it. Thanks though. I meant there's no published data for the T-bird powder.

The T-bird powder is (not is like, but is LT-32 (I.E. IMR/Dupont 8208), aside from whatever difference 40 years of aging brings. According to Western Powder, LT-32 is made by the same factory on the same equipment with the same process that Dupont made 8208 for 5.56 NATO cartridges.

 

[shooter115]

I looked up the load data for LT-32 right after i was aware of it. Thanks though. I meant there's no published data for the T-bird powder.

The T-bird powder is (not is like, but is LT-32 (I.E. IMR/Dupont 8208), aside from whatever difference 40 years of aging brings. According to Western Powder, LT-32 is made by the same factory on the same equipment with the same process that Dupont made 8208 for 5.56 NATO cartridges.

And from my understanding T-322 was a fast burning lot of 8208. So if LT-32 was made to duplicate 8208 is it really the same as T-322?

 

[Catfur]

That probably depends on what lot you get, maybe Western has a better answer.

 

[shooter115]

I believe there was only one lot of T322. One 21,000lb lot.

 

[Pinsnscrews]

Handloader Magazine #293 December 2014
"Propellant Profiles Accurate LT-32" Written by R.H. VanDenburg, Jr.
Page 18-19

Includes load data for .222Rem, .223Rem,(40-55gr bullets),30-30,.308