Using my .223 load in 5.56 brass

[NorMissouri9412]

I am reloading for my AR-15 which is chambered for 5.56 NATO/.223. Recently I bought about 500 once fired casings with .223 and 5.56 casings both mixed in. I sorted all of the .223 casings out and have only been using them. I want to use my 5.56 brass with the same load I have in my .223 casings but I have read that the 5.56 brass is slightly thicker and therefore reacts to loads differently than .223 casings do. Is there any truth to this? And if it is true, is there any way to figure how much less powder to use in order to get it to be the same as my load in .223 casings? Any info would be appreciated. Thanks.

 

[firearmdoc1]

5.56 brass is generally thicker than commercial 223 brass and will create higher pressures with a given load. I would start low and work your way up until you have a load which shoots the same as your 223. I don't know of a formula you can use, someone else may have more answers for you regarding this.

 

[Joe O]

To see the difference,size both cases,leave primer in,or replace with fired primer.Fill both cases with ball powder right up to the mouth(tap it to settle the powder)and weigh each.start 10% lower than the difference in the 5.56 brass.A chronograph will give you the results,plus any presssure signs.

 

[Rtheurer]

Here we go again!!!! More of that Mil Brass is thicker and has less volume lie again.

It just does not go away.

RT

Click here:
http://forum.accurateshooter.com/index.php?topic=3799156.msg36138505#msg36138505

 

[necchi]

is there any way to figure how much less powder to use in order to get it to be the same as my load in .223 casings?

Nope, no math exists to simply "figure it out".

It's a good idea to check the volume as described above, but the bottom line is you need to re-work the load with the different brass.

Just start a little lower and bring it back up looking for the same accuracy you want. You may find it'll take a .1 grain less or more to get the same results

 

[Caliche Pit]

Without offering any advice...........unless you are at MAX or MAX + charges, I don't think it will make much difference. My 1000 yard service rifle loads are off the charts, but I know what to look for in my rifle's brass reaction. But, as the lawyers say (who write the reloading manuals now), be careful and work up slowly.

 

[bigedp51]

It always gets me that some people forget two things.

1. That http://www.accurateshooter.com/ has a home page full of information.

223 Rem + 223 AI Cartridge Guide (they even give you case weights)
http://www.accurateshooter.com/cartridge-guides/223rem/

2. If you reload you must have your own scales to weigh your cases.

3. 5.56 Lake City cases are not heavier and thicker, they are harder and lighter than most commercial cases.

The 5.56 NATO cases must pass milspec hardness requirments.

And it goes way back to the testing phase of the M16 rifle and its jamming problems.

I have over three five gallon buckets of .223/5.56 brass and I know what each brands weighs and I would never ask the question you just did when the brass is sitting right in front of me. ???

Think twice before asking questions from strangers on the internet.

Proof that everything on the INTERNET is true. (watch the video)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmx4twCK3_I


Now for the first time at Accurateshooter.com the latest medical information.
Today Doctors at the Mayo Clinic discovered that orange juice causes cancer in gay rats.
(honest and you heard it first on the internet so it MUST be true)

I just love the internet.

I feel better now I got that off my chest.

 

[necchi]

NorMissouri9412 , you ask any questions you want,,

Ignore the drunk, fully half the forum does already. He's simply so full of himself that when his wife belittles him and he feels bad he comes online too build his ego up again by posting crap like that.

 

[bigedp51]

NorMissouri9412 , you ask any questions you want,,

Ignore the drunk, fully half the forum does already. He's simply so full of himself that when his wife belittles him and he feels bad he comes online too build his ego up again by posting crap like that.

Dear necchi

Do you know how to tell when you have had enough to drink?

You had enough to drink when you try and rub something off your back and it turns out to be the floor.

P.S. At least my wife doesn't make me do all the sewing when I could be reloading.

 

[37Lincoln1]

You guys are too much, LMAO!!!

 

[Rtheurer]

Thanks for posting that again Ed. I wanted so bad to copy and paste it here but thought better than to steal your ACTUAL FACTS about internal case capacity variation and the Mil spec. 5.5mm lie that keeps geting past around time and time again.

Fireamsdoc... Please dont pass that old wives tail around... Its not true for the 223 and 5.56mm cases. 308/7.62 yes. 223... Not so much. Sorry sir but its my pet peev and just keeps poping like a bad weed in your garden.

Hope all is well.
RussT

 

[mac86951]

Yup, as already mentioned above 5.56 brass vs. .223 brass really doesn't differ. I treat any different case just like it is, a different case. If my load is near max, then I'll check the new lot the way we all should be doing it and work up as needed.

-Mac

 

[necchi]

P.S. At least my wife doesn't make me do all the sewing when I could be reloading.

Thank you jack,
That's actually part of my handle, My machine is a 1966 semi industrial all metal gears with a 16" head.
I'd share some of my leather craft work with you but you wouldn't understand and it's not a saddle an tack forum.
I have a photo that would represent you too, but that's not allowed here either.

Now go bake somemore brass and tell us all how good you are again, like a good little boy.

p.s. I don't need a woman to do my sewing for me.

 

[bigedp51]

I have a NEF Handi 223 that'll make dime size groups at 200.

necchi, what comes out of a horses backside?
(I know the reply is a little "tacky" but you did bring up your Tandy leather skills)

 

[bigedp51]

NorMissouri9412

You have once fired mixed Remington brass that is not even the same lot number, these cases will vary considerably in weight and consistency.

The photo I posted above with the clear plastic tub and red coffee cans is also mixed, once fired Remington .223 cases. These cases are my blasting ammo used for short range practice. These Remington cases you have also do not have crimped primers so you do not know for sure if they are really once fired cases.

If you want accuracy then get some brand new cases from the same lot number and work up your loads.

Weigh your different brands of cases and then check internal volume and you will come to your own conclusion. If you look at the case weight chart I posted you will also see the Lake City cases are more consistent than Remington or Winchester cases.

I have to go now, my wife wants me to sober up and get the sewing machine out and fix the hem of her dress. :

NOTICE: No horses or humans were hurt or injured during the making of this posting.

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

One day I went to a match with my newly loaded .223 Rem handloads. I started popping primers right away and had to withdraw from the match. I had used Winchester brass instead of LC brass in this batch by mistake and the LC brass load was at maximum. The thicker Winchester brass increased the pressures to primer-piercing levels.

When I returned home, I had to disassemble 95 cartridges; I will never forget that military brass in 5.56 is thinner than commercial .223 brass.

 

[firearmdoc1]

Rtheurer,
Sincerely sorry that I showed my ignorance about 5.56 vs 223 brass, and I stand corrected. I hope by now your blood pressure has returned to normal. Maybe next time I will run my post past you, so as not to offend anyone who is obviously smarter than the greater population.

I thought the whole reason for this forum was so we could all learn something collectively. I am not always correct, and will always admit when I am wrong, so again I apologize for my ignorance.

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

I guess the question I would ask is this: "On what experience/expertise/knowledge did you base your answer in the first place?"

It just seems like you answered a question in a confident manner without even knowing the answer. I think that's what got Rtheurer going.

Well that, and the fact you were wrong. That didn't help either.

 

[firearmdoc1]

I guess I should have qualified my answer by saying that some 5.56 brass I had used had a smaller capacity than some commercial brass which I had used. I still feel that my advice to start low and work your way up was sound and will stand behind that advice.

I will say again that I stand corrected about the general statement of brass thickness between 5.56 and 223 brass. Sorry for any confusionor frustration which my post may have caused.

 

[necchi]

Don't worry too much, cases have changed a bunch in the last twenty years.

I can find just at my house two different manuals that both suggest that Mil brass has less capacity and to use care when loading.

Perhaps they learned that making the heavier case wasn't cost effective and thinned things down. Who knows?

Not many of us are using 70's vintage mil brass anymore, and the comparison that so many use here from accurate shooters 223 section doesn't test Mil brass that old.

So the old story that mil brass has less capacity, is just that, true for old mil brass. Not the stuff that's typically available today.