I'm thinking about buying a MagnetoSpeed v3. I've always been told nothing should touch the barrel when you fire. Do you all just use it for finding low ES loads or do you use it during ladder tests and load developments as well. If so what if any have you experienced it affect groups size?
Using MagnetoSpeed v3 during load development
- Thread starter solaction
- Start date
solaction said:
While the MagnetoSpeed is convenient, it makes no sense to me. Here's why.
Based on the good results I got with my 22 rimfire rifle, which shoots MUCH better with a tuner, I bought one for my Howa 1500 chambered in .223 Rem.
Unlike the one on my 22 rim fire, the .223 tuner was a total flop. Several hundred rounds of very careful testing not only showed no improvement, it indicated that no group with the tuner, no matter what the setting, was better than the normal group without the tuner. Simply mounting the indexing collar on the barrel was sufficient to degrade the rifle's inherent precision. I really wanted the tuner to work, since it worked so well with my rimfire rifle. So I ran a second comprehensive test a few months later. Same results, which is to say the tuner not only didn't help, it actually hurt. Bottom line; this particular .223 always shoots worse with the tuner in place.
Based on that, it seems to me that there is a danger of decreasing the natural precision of a rifle simply by mounting a MagnetoSpeed to the end of the barrel. Just as bad, would be if the MagnetoSpeed reduced group size unless it were a permanent fixture on the end of the barrel.
Because measuring muzzle velocity during load development is the single reason I own a chronograph, I can't justify complicating my load development procedure by shooting an entire set of ammo while measuring accuracy and then attempting to shoot an identical set with the MagnetoSpeed attached while measuring the muzzle velocity.
Based on my experience, it's hard to guarantee any two cartridges will produce absolutely identical performance, even though that is goal for most of us. Consistency is the holy grail, but why complicate the search? It's hard enough already.
Now you have my two cents. Of course, others will disagree.
Me?............. I'll take 5 minutes to set up my conventional chronograph 11 feet in front of my muzzle just like I always do.
Jet
Gold $$ Contributor
I have the V3 model and am very happy with it. I DO NOT use it during load development. When attached it will affect point of impact and group size.
The Magnetospeed is only used to give me the numbers once the load/barrel is shooting the way I want it. The data goes into my notes just like powder weight, seating depth, neck tension, etc.
Good shooting
Rich
The Magnetospeed is only used to give me the numbers once the load/barrel is shooting the way I want it. The data goes into my notes just like powder weight, seating depth, neck tension, etc.
Good shooting
Rich
Warren Dean
Team Savage F-TR
Right on, hogpatrol. 
This is gonna get entertaining. Here goes.....
I have had the exact opposite experience with mine. The POI shifts but the group sizes stay the same. My #1 FTR gun regularly shoots in the low .2s regardless of whether the Magnetospeed is on or not. The POI shifts down about 1 minute, but other than that there is no detrimental effect on precision that I can see. I have done back to back on/off tests because I thought the same as some others on here. But the results are clear.
A friend of mine uses his in 1K practice matches to evaluate new load performance in the real world of a 20 shot string. The data are pretty enlightening. I'll be doing the same this weekend.
Maybe an proper OCW load is less affected by the weight....
Pot stirring initiated......
This is gonna get entertaining. Here goes..... I have had the exact opposite experience with mine. The POI shifts but the group sizes stay the same. My #1 FTR gun regularly shoots in the low .2s regardless of whether the Magnetospeed is on or not. The POI shifts down about 1 minute, but other than that there is no detrimental effect on precision that I can see. I have done back to back on/off tests because I thought the same as some others on here. But the results are clear.
A friend of mine uses his in 1K practice matches to evaluate new load performance in the real world of a 20 shot string. The data are pretty enlightening. I'll be doing the same this weekend.
Maybe an proper OCW load is less affected by the weight....
Pot stirring initiated......
It's Christmas, why not throw in my $.02 too?
If you can find one, and have the money for it, a Labradar is all that and a bag of chips. 2 seconds to set-up, accurate, and doesn't hang from the end of your barrel. And I have found their customer service to be phenomenal.
That being said, I used a MagnetoSpeed for the past few years to do load development on several rifles. I tested rifles with 30" heavy barrels, 26" medium barrels, and 22" light barrels. In all cases, the POI and accuracy changed with the MS strapped on. I did not feel comfortable using it during a ladder test. So I would run the test, find my load specs, then measure velocities. It increased the number of rounds it took to iron everything out, but it worked for me.
Again, just my $.02, but I have used a MS for hundreds of rounds and would not use it if I was testing for accuracy.
If you can find one, and have the money for it, a Labradar is all that and a bag of chips. 2 seconds to set-up, accurate, and doesn't hang from the end of your barrel. And I have found their customer service to be phenomenal.
That being said, I used a MagnetoSpeed for the past few years to do load development on several rifles. I tested rifles with 30" heavy barrels, 26" medium barrels, and 22" light barrels. In all cases, the POI and accuracy changed with the MS strapped on. I did not feel comfortable using it during a ladder test. So I would run the test, find my load specs, then measure velocities. It increased the number of rounds it took to iron everything out, but it worked for me.
Again, just my $.02, but I have used a MS for hundreds of rounds and would not use it if I was testing for accuracy.
;DWarren Dean said:Pot stirring initiated......
I just bought the Magnetospeed and have made one checkout trip to the range.
I have a data base of 10-shot groups with a "pet load" with one match rifle that I use for mid range matches and I also have a data base of twenty shot matches at 600 yards with the pet load and the rifle. I shot two ten shot groups with the rifle and the pet load and with the Magnetospeed mounted on the barrel and the groups were within the variability of my previous data and that is all I can say at this point.
It would take many more groups to make a statically significant statement relative to whether the groups were effected by the devise or not. I bought the Magnetospeed to get velocity data on the club range where the optical chronograph is a pain to set up and use. So far the Magnetospeed is meeting my objectives and I do not plan to try to get the two-for-one velocity and group data because I have no way of quantifying the effect without a level of effort that I am not willing to spend.
One last point, I find the Magnetospeed very user friendly and after the one checkout at the range I am optimistic that it will achieve my objective for buying it.
I have a data base of 10-shot groups with a "pet load" with one match rifle that I use for mid range matches and I also have a data base of twenty shot matches at 600 yards with the pet load and the rifle. I shot two ten shot groups with the rifle and the pet load and with the Magnetospeed mounted on the barrel and the groups were within the variability of my previous data and that is all I can say at this point.
It would take many more groups to make a statically significant statement relative to whether the groups were effected by the devise or not. I bought the Magnetospeed to get velocity data on the club range where the optical chronograph is a pain to set up and use. So far the Magnetospeed is meeting my objectives and I do not plan to try to get the two-for-one velocity and group data because I have no way of quantifying the effect without a level of effort that I am not willing to spend.
One last point, I find the Magnetospeed very user friendly and after the one checkout at the range I am optimistic that it will achieve my objective for buying it.
Find your load on paper, then run 5rds across the Magnetospeed to get your numbers. If you have the $30 XFR attachment you press one button and it emails you all your data statistics in an excel sheet. No screwing with SD cards. Seems easy to me? Or you could pay double for a Labradar and try to squeeze it onto your bench or lug around a tripod with you.
This is just a thought of someone on the outside looking in....
If the harmonics on a finished out, turned rifle is stable.... then the Magno would barely make a difference on impact or POI... because the barrel is already stable.
BUT.... if the barrel is NOT finished out with smooth harmonics... then the Magno would just aggravate the whole process of tuning it in.
If the harmonics on a finished out, turned rifle is stable.... then the Magno would barely make a difference on impact or POI... because the barrel is already stable.
BUT.... if the barrel is NOT finished out with smooth harmonics... then the Magno would just aggravate the whole process of tuning it in.
The answer largely depends on your needs, your wallet and where you shoot. If where you shoot, you pretty much have the range to yourself, an optical chronograph is accurate and should not impact accuracy or POI. If on the other hand, you have to hold up a bunch of other shooters while you're fussing with the sensors out in front of the firing line, then it might not be such a good idea. The LabRadar seems like a good idea but you might not be able to get one this week (maybe not even within a month) and it does take up room on the shooting line. The magnetospeed's great virtue is simplicity.
There's an active, several-page thread on the main board about the pros and cons of various chronographs.
There's an active, several-page thread on the main board about the pros and cons of various chronographs.
I do not yet own a Magnospeed, but hope to one day. To me, their plus is their ease of use and portability. I would never have even considered shooting groups over one. Use them to get you load speed and don't worry about target practicing over them. I now use an old Pro Chrono that has served me well and I do the same thing with it. I shoot my groups and then shoot a few over the chrono to tie down the velocity. Why complicate it?
Bought a V3 a few months back and it has become an important component of my load development routine for F T/R. Consider that in the first three range trips I had wrapped up defining load ranges (nodes with flexibility for wide temp ranges since I shot locally this year between 10 and 97 degrees) for two powders (favorite and backup) using 185 Juggs. Both with single digit SD and ES spinning over 2800 fps as allowed by my chamber's setup.
Yes the low SD loads directly and closely correlated to group sizes when tested at 600 yards.
The V3 is very easy to use. I did learn I got more consistent readings with the bayonet close to the bullet, taking time to play with different spacer combos and buying the tapered spacers ($5) for my heavy barrel.
One theory I would advance is that group size seems to move more as you adjust closer to the bullet's path where as I mentioned readings are more consistent. 0.25 to 0.35 MOA approximate higher impact. That is irrelevant to my purpose - building the lowest SD loads then verifying their grouping performance without the V3 on the rifle. It only takes a few seconds to remove or reinstall the V3 and since these are usually stout loads I am in the habit of checking and adjusting the mount about every 5 shots.
My confidence in this equipment and method is high at this point. Waiting for my small primers to come off back order in the next couple weeks to begin load development with 200 Hybrids and fresh Lapua Palma brass. Don't know how I could have fumbled around without a chrono before. This thing turned some light bulbs on for me.
Yes the low SD loads directly and closely correlated to group sizes when tested at 600 yards.
The V3 is very easy to use. I did learn I got more consistent readings with the bayonet close to the bullet, taking time to play with different spacer combos and buying the tapered spacers ($5) for my heavy barrel.
One theory I would advance is that group size seems to move more as you adjust closer to the bullet's path where as I mentioned readings are more consistent. 0.25 to 0.35 MOA approximate higher impact. That is irrelevant to my purpose - building the lowest SD loads then verifying their grouping performance without the V3 on the rifle. It only takes a few seconds to remove or reinstall the V3 and since these are usually stout loads I am in the habit of checking and adjusting the mount about every 5 shots.
My confidence in this equipment and method is high at this point. Waiting for my small primers to come off back order in the next couple weeks to begin load development with 200 Hybrids and fresh Lapua Palma brass. Don't know how I could have fumbled around without a chrono before. This thing turned some light bulbs on for me.
wedgy
Gold $$ Contributor
My MagnetoSpeed shows a ~50fps sd on a 230 grain RUM load that groups about
1" at 400yards so I think it saves me some time not taking that load any further. It seems to affect barrels differently, from almost zero on one to 3" low at 200 yards on another. More of a POI shift than a group size thing. Setting up the CED is tough for me at the club range as someone said so it's impractical so the MS is the best option for me.
Does the Lab Radar pick up shots from the bench next to you or how far away do they need to be ?
1" at 400yards so I think it saves me some time not taking that load any further. It seems to affect barrels differently, from almost zero on one to 3" low at 200 yards on another. More of a POI shift than a group size thing. Setting up the CED is tough for me at the club range as someone said so it's impractical so the MS is the best option for me.
Does the Lab Radar pick up shots from the bench next to you or how far away do they need to be ?
dmoran
Donovan Moran
For those who are only concerned with the speed of there load and deviations, you don't need a chronograph at all !.!.!
Simply by adjusting the velocity of a ballistics program (JBM, AB, etc.) to the actual drops on the target(s). That can yield more accurate and/or "true velocities" and deviations then many chronographs are capable of. That will be unique and true to your rifle barrel, bullets, and load.
Also a good way to check and/or calibrate a chronograph.
Donovan
Simply by adjusting the velocity of a ballistics program (JBM, AB, etc.) to the actual drops on the target(s). That can yield more accurate and/or "true velocities" and deviations then many chronographs are capable of. That will be unique and true to your rifle barrel, bullets, and load.
Also a good way to check and/or calibrate a chronograph.
Donovan
LOVE my magnetospeed. The convenience is best available. Many extra range trips have been eliminated because I can throw it on the barrel during a match. Today, for example, I took a brand new barrel to the Saturday 500 yard shoot with a different load for each string. Put the chrono on before the first shot and kept it on the rest of the day. By the end of the match, I had my load locked down.
Almost forgot to mention, the bayonet on the end of the barrel plays absolute havoc with accuracy: I had the high F-class score for the day with a TR gun. : Does the zero change slightly with the magneto on the barrel? Sure. Does it change the groups or performance such that I'd pick the wrong load by leaving it on? Absolutely not.
Most importantly, the magnetospeed provides numbers you can rely on every single shot. Can't say that for most anything else out there.
Almost forgot to mention, the bayonet on the end of the barrel plays absolute havoc with accuracy: I had the high F-class score for the day with a TR gun. :
Does the zero change slightly with the magneto on the barrel? Sure. Does it change the groups or performance such that I'd pick the wrong load by leaving it on? Absolutely not.Most importantly, the magnetospeed provides numbers you can rely on every single shot. Can't say that for most anything else out there.
Warren Dean
Team Savage F-TR
Scott Harris said:LOVE my magnetospeed. The convenience is best available. Many extra range trips have been eliminated because I can throw it on the barrel during a match. Today, for example, I took a brand new barrel to the Saturday 500 yard shoot with a different load for each string. Put the chrono on before the first shot and kept it on the rest of the day. By the end of the match, I had my load locked down.
Almost forgot to mention, the bayonet on the end of the barrel plays absolute havoc with accuracy: I had the high F-class score for the day with a TR gun. :
Most importantly, the magnetospeed provides numbers you can rely on every single shot. Can't say that for most anything else out there.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Yeah...What he said.
Upgrades & Donations
This Forum's expenses are primarily paid by member contributions. You can upgrade your Forum membership in seconds. Gold and Silver members get unlimited FREE classifieds for one year. Gold members can upload custom avatars.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.