Use Enough Gun!

[people]

I'm surprised almost no one is mentioning hunting @ 1000 yards? Aside from enough energy to properly kill, what about accuracy for shot placement? Now I don't travel in the world of custom rifles and custom reloads, but it would seem that if you're trying to hit a kill zone...about the size of maybe a large dinner plate, that any amount of wind would drift the bullet and cause a wound, not a kill. And we're also talking about 'in the field'..not some benchrest rifle with benchrest conditions. And from what little I know, would humidity and barometric pressure have some factor at these distances? And the wind you measure where you're shooting from may not be the same wind over a bullet path that long.

Maybe I'm older and out of touch with these sort of things, but hunting @ 1000 yards? I don't have those skills/equipment, so it's either get closer or don't pull the trigger.

Once a person starts shooting long range they find out what they need. Like the gunsmith question. A better guide. Practice will tell you what you need. With practice you find out all kinds of things about you and your setup. One thing is with practice you learn the wind and how it acts. With enough experience you will get a good feel for it but every place is different. A person can be the king on their section but an utter failure when they travel to hunt.

Use enough gun? I am a fan of going big. The 300wm is the smallest I will shoot at big game. Coyotes as having no life rights in my book I will shoot at them with anything I have with me. It still needs to be a safe shot. I prefer the 338LM for this shooting with the 300rr SMK. The 300gr smk is a very good bullet.

It can be hard to get a safe spot to have a safe shot. Here are my general rules for hunting long or longer range shots.

Nothing happens fast if it is do not shoot.
Stay on the scope after a shot. Now is not the time for high fives and jackass behavior.
Work the bolt and be ready to fire again.
When in doubt shot a second round.
Hold in position just like bow hunting.
You should have a spotter they should be ready to shoot also.
Pride should not play any part of your decision to shoot. Cold facts are it.

As to practice do it. As often as you can in every condition that is out there. I never fire more than 3 shots from any one position. In practice if you miss figure out why. If you fire two shots and they both hit the same spot well you know you are the problem. Shooting groups at distance can be fun it does not truly help you. Trust me I found this out the hard way.

The real fact of shooting 1,000 yds is nothing is ever at 1,000 yds. You need to practice much farther than you plan on hunting. Do not forget close range shots are good as your PK is very high.

 

[WSM01]

Strange. I've seen this exact same picture taken by our local game warden when he took his teen son on white sands missile range near Socorro NM for an oryx hunt.
Rifle was a 280 Ackley with a 160 Barnes . The 1st shot went thru a yucca causing deflection & poor penetration. Shot Was no where near 1000 yards, more like 320.

 

[effendude]

Strange. I've seen this exact same picture taken by our local game warden when he took his teen son on white sands missile range near Socorro NM for an oryx hunt.
Rifle was a 280 Ackley with a 160 Barnes . The 1st shot went thru a yucca causing deflection & poor penetration. Shot Was no where near 1000 yards, more like 320.

My friend, the guide who forwarded me the photo and his father, don't hunt the White Sands. They have exclusive rights to the Armendaris ranch on the west border of the missile range. The ranch also does non-trophy hunts conducted by ranch employees. This occurred on one of those hunts, with a ranch employee acting as the guide for the retired sniper who shot the oryx. That's all I know. My friend was on the ranch at the time of the hunt, conducting a trophy hunt.

This might have been passed around so many times, the story grows larger than the photo.

Scott

 

[/VH]

Yeah! Get Closer and be a REAL hunter.

hog,

Looks like some of those fellers might not have their spear chunkin safety education card yet and some of them flinging their stick at long distance are clearly unethical....unless they're just flinging it to herd the animal or keep their arm loose.

 

[284winner]

Say whatever you guys want about ethics and long range shots. Like saying a guy with a recurve should only shoot an animal at 10 yards due to its primitive origin. Bullshit. Many long range paper punchers shoot .5 moa to 1000 yds. Sure wind and mother nature plays a huge part in the shoot or not to shoot scenario but that's a judgement call by the individual that has nothing to do with a shooters ability to make a perfect shot on a relaxed animal under perfect atmospheric conditions. I laugh at all the hipocrits that dog a long range rifleman but will shoot deer with archery equipment at 60 or 70 yards. Most of the guys on this site are shooters and many if not most, long range guys. Many of us hunters but some only paper shooters. Don't criticize each other because of what you believe. If you weren't sitting right next to that shooter that shot an animal at 1000 yards and made a less than perfect shot, don't hound him for his unethical shot decision. If anybody shoots enough long range game, eventually a shot or two will be off its mark. I know many hunters that wound ducks, geese, pheasants and other game at distances where major league pitchers hit there mark on the baseball field. Don't hear anybody saying " man, why don't you get ethical and not shoot at them ducks so far". Minimizing injured game is a huge responsibility of all sportsman but there IS a fine line between that and deciding NOT to shoot at what normally is a comfortable range for some shooters.

 

[dedogs]

Very few 1000 yd BR shooters can place their first cold barrel shot in a 10 inch circle unless the conditions are EXACTLY the same as the last time they shot the rifle. That's why they shoot sighters in warm up. dedogs

 

[284winner]

I'd agree on whitetails or smaller. Larger game such as African hooved or elk, 15-20 inch kill zones are more ordinary. I've seen dozens of elk killed on first round 700-1000 yard shots. Not a ton of people can or will attempt this in most cases but many are trained and qualified to not only make the shot but do it every time they pull the trigger. These are the folks that occasionally make a less than perfect shot on very few occasions
The ones that aren't trained or shouldn't attempt the shots obviously make the guys that are, look like unethical senseless sportsman. Using the word sportsman loosly.

 

[284winner]

Very few 1000 yd BR shooters can place their first cold barrel shot in a 10 inch circle unless the conditions are EXACTLY the same as the last time they shot the rifle. That's why they shoot sighters in warm up. dedogs

You are certainly correct. You obviously have or do shoot BR and know what it takes to put the round on any given day, on the paper. Usually never happens right out of the gun case on game day. Temperature, wind and elevation play major roles in these first shot encounters.

 

[bigngreen]

How a 1000 yard BR set up and shooter approach the first shot has little in common with a solid long range hunting rifle and shooter.
I'm just getting into bench rest but I spend most of the pre shot time working on my tracking and getting my gun set and is done in a few minutes, almost zero time is spent on the cold bore cause it does not matter.
When I set up a long range hunting shot I may spend better than a half hour just watching conditions and watching wind and terrain and many time I don't take the shot, NOT taking the shot is always an option in hunting but not in competition!!!

 

[284winner]

At 1000 yards, that no shoot option comes along more often than does the actual shot opportunity. This may not count to most people as I've read that some guys say certain varmints don't matter if injured after a shot. I've backed out of many shots on 850-1000 yard opportunities on ground hogs because conditions were less than good let alone perfect. It's just making the shot that matters to alot of shooters not to mention an unethical shot on any game. Alot of editing goes into those long range shows where guys are taking 900+ yard shots on big game. To every shot they take are 10 that didn't present opportunities. That said, to every guy that takes an unethical long range shot on an animal are a 100 that have set back and just watched that animal walk off due to a bad setup.

 

[bloc]

"They watched the bullet hit the animal, but with no effect."

I had a similar experience ~ 15 years ago. The gun was a .35 Remington Thompson Contender with a 10" (!) barrel. The range was roughly 75 yards.

The 4 X 4 Whitetail was stationary, looking at me and showing me his right side. I rested the crosshairs on his heart and squeezed off.

Nothing. Nothing at all.

I looked through my scope (a 2x) and found a small spot on his side. I thought: "That's where I held. If I hit him there, I don't want him moving — he's dead. So I won't reload the handgun for fear of spooking him. If I missed him, the gods hate me." (That's true . . . honest.)

The deer didn't move for fully 30 seconds. He then turned 180 degrees, walked a yard or two, turned to his right, stumbled, walked away from me for 20 yards, turned right and dropped. It was a heart shot.

In field dressing him, I found the bullet had slipped between ribs and had hit his heart square on.

JFWIW.

 

[284winner]

Mission accomplished.

 

[people]

That said, to every guy that takes an unethical long range shot on an animal are a 100 that have set back and just watched that animal walk off due to a bad setup.

I would think it is far more than 100. There is far more watching game moving than ever getting ready to shoot.

 

[284winner]

I would think it is far more than 100. There is far more watching game moving than ever getting ready to shoot.

True but you kinda get the point of the scenario. Hunting is 99.9% and shooting is the .01%.

 

[CJ6]

There is little "hunting" skill involved in taking an animal @1000 yds. It's the "shooting" skills that prevails. The cartridge/ bullet combo didn't have enough energy (along with bad shot placement) to take the animal cleanly....the hunter should have known those capabilities...he shouldn't have taken the shot....

 

[Coleridge]

Not my pics or story but borrowed from another hunter.

I think this is interesting.....I shot a mule deer at 75yds with a 7STW using 150g Barnes TTSX traveling at +/-3400fps.

The Deer

The Bullet

Hmmm, wonder how that bullet killed the deer with .25" penetration (like penetration from bullet in 1st pic that started thread). All the bullets I've ever seen hit something hard enough to completely stop movement (even at pistol speed) turn the bullet into sprapnel or coin like bulge...

 

[284winner]

We all know hunting and shooting game in the field are all one in the same. To say someone wasn't really hunting but simply shooting without any hunting skills is picking flyshit out of pepper. Hunting has various definitions. I will agree however that a 100 grain bullet from any cartridge was much too light for a 300-400 lb animal at 1000 yards.

 

[CJ6]

True but you kinda get the point of the scenario. Hunting is 99.9% and shooting is the .01%.

If you had reversed your percentages (in this instance) I would have been more agreeable, But at long range (and this is just MY opinion)glassing an animal is low on the skills of hunting.

 

[Joe Salt]

I myself do not long range hunt, but a buddy of mine that I shoot 1000 yards with does and he uses a 338-416 Rigby with 300 gr. bullet just for that reason, he doesn't want them to run off. All you guys hunt one thing or another, but your choice of how you do it shouldn't piss off a fellow hunter we have all screwed up one way or another. So be nice

Joe Salt

 

[CJ6]

Just exchanging opinions ...no feathers ruffled here.