• This Forum is for adults 18 years of age or over. By continuing to use this Forum you are confirming that you are 18 or older. No content shall be viewed by any person under 18 in California.

Upgrade To Nightforce or March

I know ultimately the answer will come down to "Which one I like the best."....but I would be interested in thoughts people have. Threads I found on this type of topic were pretty old.

I'm looking to upgrade the Vortex Golden Eagle that is currently on my straight .284 / F-Open rifle. I'm not an experienced F-Class shooter. But I got a taste of it at the end of this season and will definitely be shooting more next year. I recently did a couple of days on the 1K range (Whittington Center) with a friend and I wasn't too happy with the image I was getting through the Golden Eagle. I'd like something that can give me a clearer image.

I'm figuring my options (without totally annihilating the bank) are:
Nightforce Competition 15-55x52
March High Master 10-60x56
March 8-80x56

My questions:
  • I'm primarily interested in thoughts on image clarity and ability to cut through mirage for both brands.
  • Any strong feelings between the two March scopes listed? Price difference is ~$100.
  • It looks like prices are the same wherever you get them. (Optics Planet, Midway, etc.) Is there a particular source folks recommend?
Thanks!

Jim
 
Check Euro optic prices and call and see if they have any demos. I chose the NF 15-55 for my F class rifle and am very happy. March scopes are also excellent. I needed the weight that the NF offered in order to make weight.
 
I don't have the exact models you are inquiring about, but I have a 10-60 March and a 12-42 NF. As stated before, the March is "crisper" than the NF when compared side by side, but I've been really happy with both of them for several years. In the end, it will come down to what you like, whats available and what your wallet can cover.
I hope this helps,

Lloyd
 
There are days shooting at Raton, and any range for that matter, you wouldn't be happy with any scope made. To say one scope brand would have performed better on that day is a real toss up. The Vortex GE is a great scope and I'd probably own one, but they don't have a reticle I like. I know many people that shoot them and do very well with them. I've owned one March, a 10 x 60, and the best thing about it was I sold it for the same amount I bought it for. It has a short eye box and for whatever reason, my eye and it didn't get along. Currently on my TR rifles I have NF Comps. I've had good luck with them in spite of all the talk here about how they won't hold zero. This might not be the advice you want to hear, but at your next match, look through all the brands you can find. You might discover your Vortex isn't as bad as you think it is.
 
I've been lucky enough to look through a lot of scopes at my local competitions on the same day and to my eye the March High Master is the best followed by the March 8-80. The Sightron ED and Nightforce Comps are just a small step below. My Sightron 45ED is indistinguishable from the Night force comps I've looked through. I'm just talking about image quality.
 
I have the March 40-60 hm and it’s excellent. Sees through mirage well. I had a nf comp and sold it however it was the older 2013 model I think the new ones are clearer. The sightron sved is another one to look at.
However I don’t think your scores will improve by going from a Golden eagle to a more expensive scope. The eagle is a really good scope itself.
 
Lots of good comments on this thread, and also lots of confusion. I am always disappointed when someone talks about a scope and neglects to give it the full name so we know which one he or she is talking about.

For instance, I see several references to a March 10-60X but apart from the OP, no one is saying exactly which one they are talking about. There are 2 models of the March 10-60X; the March 10-60X52, now discontinued, and the March-X 10-60X56 HM. They are very different animals.

The 10-60X52 had ED lenses and a 30mm tube. The other one, the March-X 10-60X56 HM was introduced in 2019 and sports Super ED lenses and a 34mm tube.

To answer the OPs questions:
The Nightforce 15-55X52 is a very good scope, especially the model after the introductory version. I see a lot of them on the line, on the rifles of great shooters.

The March-X 8-80X56 is a very solid scope. It is the highest magnification riflescope on the planet at the moment. It has ED glass and a 34mm tube. I bought its smaller brother, the March-X 5-50X56 8 years ago and used it at countless competitions. Due to its ED glass, I was able to stay at 40X all the time, regardless of mirage conditions. This was a step up from my prior scope, a NF NXS 12-42X56. It was a great scope but when the mirage was bad, I had to dial down into the 30s or less. It did not have ED glass.

The March-X 10-60X56 HM has Super ED glass, the objective lens doublet. I compared the 5-50X56 with the 10-60X56 side by side at the exact same target and magnification settings several times. I can make out the difference between the two because I know what to look for in a "laboratory setting." In those conditions, the difference is not great. However, I went ahead and acquired a 10-60X56 HM and put it on my F-TR match rifle to replace the long time 5-50X56. After a few matches, I discovered that I could go to 50X and stay there, regardless of mirage conditions. As I have said in other places, this represented a 25% improvement for me.

Because of that, I have had some matches where the results were absolutely great and others where I saw clearly how I had misread the conditions. This is not to say that the riflescope will automatically make you a better shooter, but it will make it more obvious when you screw up.

A 56mm lens will provide for better resolution than a 52mm lens. On the other hand the small diameter lens will provide greater depth of field if that's something you want. And if it is desirable, the March riflescope comes with a modifier disk that you can screw in front of the objective lens or on the sunshade, that will reduce the aperture one full F-stop and increase your DOF. You can remove in an instant when you no longer want it, even on the line.

The 34mm tube has 4mm thick walls as opposed to the 2mm walls of the NF, these two March scopes are very strong and built for the duration.
 
Last edited:
Wow, even as I typed other responses have come in. Cool.

The March 40-60 that has been mentioned a few times is a superb optical device that is rather unique. It is a fixed power March scope, a 40X52, with an eyepiece 1.5X zoom lens. It has Super ED glass also. The eyepiece zoom is favored by benchresters who demand absolute consistency in POA through the zoom range, without going to an FFP.
 
These responses are REALLY helpful. Thanks so much. They give me some good perspectives to consider.

I wasn't aware of Euro Optic. And, yes, they do happen to have a couple of demos on their website right now. If I'd made a decision at this point I'd pull the trigger.

It turns out (fortunately) I'm going to be spending Thanksgiving at a relative's house who is an avid F-Class shooter. He has a GE and a March. And he has a friend with a Nightforce he can borrow. So I'll be able to get behind all three and see how they look to me.

Thanks a lot for the info!
 
These responses are REALLY helpful. Thanks so much. They give me some good perspectives to consider.

I wasn't aware of Euro Optic. And, yes, they do happen to have a couple of demos on their website right now. If I'd made a decision at this point I'd pull the trigger.

It turns out (fortunately) I'm going to be spending Thanksgiving at a relative's house who is an avid F-Class shooter. He has a GE and a March. And he has a friend with a Nightforce he can borrow. So I'll be able to get behind all three and see how they look to me.

Thanks a lot for the info!
Comparing riflescopes is always very subjective, of course, and that should help you in your decision.

However, make sure you record the exact model of each scope you will be comparing as riflescopes vary greatly from model to model.

Your OP was excellent, you had the nomenclature down pat. Your friend should know the exact models he has and what his friend has.
 
I think I have bought and sold every type of scope there is... and what I have found is that everyone's eyes are different. I like bright scopes, but most importantly I REQUIRE (and test/validate) a scope that does not move under recoil. I REQUIRE (and test/validate) that a scope tracks well. I prefer a small dot with crosshairs (no hash marks).

Here is my $0.02 ... (I own at least one of these)

NF Comp is the brightest, but DDR2 dot is bigger than the March HM 3/32 dot.
March High Master 10-60x scope is very bright and I like the 3/32" dot.
Kahles K1050 is rock solid and unique feature, but not as bright as above.
A Vortex Golden Eagle is rock solid, but not as bright as above.

I primarily shoot the March High Master 10-60 3/32" dot.

The March High Master class is superb... from their website...
The High Master Lens System has 2 Super ED lens elements within its new lens system.
By using Super ED lens elements, we can suppress chromatic aberration even more than with ED lenses
and thus produce a sharper image with greater contrast, while still having a strong scope.


The March 8-80 are NOT high master glass, and noticeable reduction in brightness (to me), I have looked through them but have never owned one.

If you want a NF scope ask @dragman for a price and what he has in stock (thank me later).
 
Last edited:
Of the scopes you mentioned, I would buy the March 10-60 HM for your stated purpose. I use an older 36-55 EPZ, it was orig. on a 1K BR gun and now sits on a 6ppc. It has worked flawlessly in tracking and clarity in all conditions for knocking holes in paper.......Best of luck with your choice & Happy Shooting.

Regards
Rick
 
I own a bunch of NF scopes, both 8-32x56 and 12-42x56 NXS, as well as the 15-55x52 Competition. All are mounted on F-TR rifles. I also own a couple IOR-Valdada fixed 36X BR scopes, also on mounted F-TR rifles. My take on the clarity/quality of the glass may be a little different than others, as that is not the first thing I look for in a scope. Over time, I have come to realize that if I don't like the reticle, or can't hardly even see the reticle, the quality of the glass means very little. Although there is obviously a range of different glass quality amongst all the scopes mentioned herein, even the "lowest" (which is solely a relative term) quality amongst them would suffice for shooting F-Class, IMO.

In recent years, I have at times struggled with the various floating dot-type and fine crosshair with a dot reticles that are in some of the scopes I own, specifically the 12-42 NXSs, and the Competition. Of these scopes, the issue is the most apparent with the Competition. The reticles I have in these scopes are the NP-2DD (NXSs), and the CTR-2 reticle in the Competition. In conditions of low light such as early morning (first match of the day), or heavy overcast, I often "lose" the aiming dot of these reticles against the target black. In contrast, the IOR-Valdada floating dot reticle appears "in your face" obvious to my eyes against the target black, even in poor light. In trying to understand this issue, I determined the various subtensions of the dot as listed by NF and back-calculated them to 36X magnification so I could compare them to the fixed 36X IOR-Valdada reticle. It turned out that the floating dot in the 12-42x56 NP-2DD reticle has an angular subtension of ~0.115 MOA at 36X, whereas the the Competition dot subtends ~0.106 MOA. Not surprisingly, the IOR-Valdada has a true 1/8th MOA dot (0.125 MOA). I was quite surprised my eyes could distinguish such small differences in the angular subtensions for each of the dots as 0.106 MOA vs 0.115 MOA vs 0.125 MOA doesn't seem like much difference. Nonetheless, the size of each dot was directly proportional to how easily I could visualize it, especially in low light conditions. In fact, I just had the rifle with the Competition scope out for a little load development a couple days ago and even in relatively bright light, I struggled with it, to the point I'm considering replacing it with one of my IOR-Valdada 36X scopes. The key takeaway here is that features of the reticle and how easily your eyes can visualize them are at least as important as the glass quality, especially when all the scopes you are considering have what I would call "very good" glass to begin with.

In terms of the glass quality of these scopes, I rate them as IOR-Valdada > Competition >> NXS. The IOR-Valdada with Schott glass is the clear winner in side-by-side comparisons, the Competition comes in second, and the NXS scopes obviously do not have the same glass quality as the newer Competition scope. Nonetheless, with their larger aiming dot, I struggle much less using the NXS scopes, and not at all with the IOR-Valdada. Before buying the Competition scope, I had looked through a few Vortex Golden scopes and found that I had extreme difficulty visualizing the reticles, which have the exact same angular subtension for their aiming dot as does the Competition scope. I had hoped that by choosing the fine crosshair with a dot (CTR-2 reticle) for the Competition scope, the crosshairs would help "lead" my eye into the center dot. To some extent, that approach worked as I could visualize the Competition dot better than the floating dot of the exact same angular subtension in the Golden Eagle scope, which I could hardly see at all. But as I get older, it appears as though my ability to use the Competition scope is effectively diminishing. In retrospect, I think I personally would have been much better off with the FCR-1 (hashmark) reticle in the Competition, as I feel the hashmark-style reticles do a better job of "drawing" my eye to the center.

The main point here is that one can discuss/debate relatively intangible items such as "glass quality" or "cutting through mirage" at length without ever reaching any true consensus, as they can appear quite different to different individuals. In that regard, personal opinion matters, and the only way to form a truly valid opinion is to look through a particular scope yourself. However, being able to see and use a given reticle under low light conditions is a topic I find to be somewhat under-represented in typical scope discussions, which always seem to focus on less tangible items such as glass quality. I would much rather use a scope with "decent" or "good" quality glass that has a reticle I really like and can easily visualize, than a scope with the absolute best glass on the planet that has a reticle I have difficulty seeing in some conditions. Given the amount of money that these scopes are going for these days, I think it's wise to consider all the features, including the reticle, glass quality, turret adjustments and range of adjustments, weight, etc., and then make a decision on which you think will work best for your purposes.
 
Last edited:
I like what the quintessential Luddite wrote. I would like to make a comment.

The range of adjustment is not something that I consider critical for F-class. The best IQ is obtained when your riflescope is in the middle of its adjustment range. So, as I have explained many times, I set up my March-X 10-60X56 HM with a combination of 20MOA canted ramps and Burris Signature rings so that my scope is as close to 0 at 1000 yards, where I spend most of my time shooting matches. If I was going to 600 and 1000 yard matches, I would use the same tricks to setup my scope in the middle of the range. For example, I need about 20MOA from 600 to 1000. I would set it up so that I am 10MOA or so from center on both distances.

If I'm going to spend a great deal of money for a riflescope, I want to get the best performance out of it. That's a reason I like the March Genesis so much, you're always looking through the middle of the scope, the sweet spot. Too bad, it's an FFP design, not the best for F-Class. (And it's spendy :D)
 
I thought I'd post a follow-up on this thread......

Through this discussion and others I've seen I definitely internalized the fact that different scopes work differently with different people. And you have to look through them yourself to see what produces the best image for you.

I had an opportunity to compare side-by-side the Golden Eagle, the Nightforce Competition 15-55x52, and the March High Master 10-60x56.

For me the March won pretty convincingly. Both the NF and the March delivered better images than the GE. Picking the winner was a little tougher between the NF and the March, but the March was able to show some finer grain detail I wasn't seeing on the NF.

Thanks all for your comments! They helped a lot.

Jim
 
You prob need to look through them. I sold a March and Kahles and now own 2 Sightrons.
You Hit the Nail on the Head Dead Center ...
Look through a Scope your eyes tell all. Next it just has to re-peat in adjustments.

I am a Sightron Fan as well as my eyes. Shooting pal looked through my S111 10X50 ,Sold His March and Lepould , Has two Sightron's now.
 
I Replaced a NF Comp with a Sightron SVSSED ( 27008 ) Target Dot on my primary rifle.
But the NF still resides on my back up rifle....Not selling it any time soon. ( Its not bad by any means )
Just not as Good with my eyes as the Sightron seems to be.
 
I thought I'd post a follow-up on this thread......

Through this discussion and others I've seen I definitely internalized the fact that different scopes work differently with different people. And you have to look through them yourself to see what produces the best image for you.

I had an opportunity to compare side-by-side the Golden Eagle, the Nightforce Competition 15-55x52, and the March High Master 10-60x56.

For me the March won pretty convincingly. Both the NF and the March delivered better images than the GE. Picking the winner was a little tougher between the NF and the March, but the March was able to show some finer grain detail I wasn't seeing on the NF.

Thanks all for your comments! They helped a lot.

Jim
Jim,

Everytime we get together, you spend more money. I think our wives won’t let us shoot together if this keeps happening! LOL

After owning multiple brands of scopes, I’ve come to the conclusion the best way to decide if you like one is to look through it. Each persons eyes see each of the scopes differently, so the best way is to look through several different ones to see what your eyes like. let your eyes tell you which one to get, all the top models are excellent and do very well. I’m glad you got the opportunity to test drive each one while you were here.

I own or owned the GE, NF Comp 2014, and March 10-60 HM. I’ve shot great scores with all three scopes. With the GE I’ve shot a 597, NF 999 out of 1000 on a 2 day match, and a 600-39 with the March. My preferred in heavy mirage is the March though. Let your eyes tell you what they like.

Lou
 

Upgrades & Donations

This Forum's expenses are primarily paid by member contributions. You can upgrade your Forum membership in seconds. Gold and Silver members get unlimited FREE classifieds for one year. Gold members can upload custom avatars.


Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.

You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.


To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.

Forum statistics

Threads
165,078
Messages
2,189,591
Members
78,688
Latest member
C120
Back
Top