Unusual Sharps rifle question.....

[slingworks]

Ok,
I am curious if the Sharps Black Powder rifles/carbines can be loaded from the muzzle with any reasonable success?
Has anyone ever done so and willing to comment?

Yes, a strange line of thought for a breech loading paper cartridge BP gun, I know...

I have a Pedersoli Carbine and I'd like to use it in Ohio's musket/BP season this year. I find it handy.

I believe i could drill a small hole in trigger guard and tang, and tap for something like a 10-32 screw to hold the trigger guard "closed". Either that or something internal to block the lock from sliding. Thinking maybe to appease the state as far as making it a "muzzle loader".

Where I hesitate a bit is the chamber of the sharps. Assuming I can "ram" down a bullet on a powder charge, will I have an issue?

 

[TaperPin]

How would you clean it and not have rust issues with a breach that isn’t water tight? It would be a shame to damage the gun.

 

[Prose]

Ok,
I am curious if the Sharps Black Powder rifles/carbines can be loaded from the muzzle with any reasonable success?
Has anyone ever done so and willing to comment?

Yes, a strange line of thought for a breech loading paper cartridge BP gun, I know...

I have a Pedersoli Carbine and I'd like to use it in Ohio's musket/BP season this year. I find it handy.

I believe i could drill a small hole in trigger guard and tang, and tap for something like a 10-32 screw to hold the trigger guard "closed". Either that or something internal to block the lock from sliding. Thinking maybe to appease the state as far as making it a "muzzle loader".

Where I hesitate a bit is the chamber of the sharps. Assuming I can "ram" down a bullet on a powder charge, will I have an issue?

I believe your sharps is classified as a rifle and cannot transition to being called a muzzle loader no matter your efforts. These are legal classifications that are federally controlled.

 

[slingworks]

I believe your sharps is classified as a rifle and cannot transition to being called a muzzle loader no matter your efforts. These are legal classifications that are federally controlled.

Im not really worried about the Feds....I'm thinking more of the county game warden's interpretation of Ohio's regs. Ohio allows Remington 700 ML's and 870's with a blackpowder barrel.

Maybe one could argue that a BP sharps Pedersoli isn't a modern firearm? It's a copy of a pre 1898 rifle that shoots a cartridge not commercially available? (not even a cartridge really and uses a musket cap) I've not seen any obsolete cartridge list though.... Not really so relevant to whether or not i can load from the muzzle?

If I put a small screw in the trigger guard I'd just take it out with an allen wrench and open the action. That's what I planned to do to clean it. It would be a little shame to drill/tap for small screw but I don't think on a Pedersoli it would matter too much.

Before I go down that path I'm just curious if anyone else has loaded a sharps from the muzzle end and how it worked out?

 

[Pawnee Bill]

Ain't but one way to find out.............................

 

[slingworks]

Ain't but one way to find out.............................

lol
Maybe I'll try it before drilling anything!
Am I really the only one who had such a thought?

 

[SSL]

lol
Maybe I'll try it before drilling anything!
Am I really the only one who had such a thought?

I have indeed thought about such things. I have had a Pedersoli Remington Rolling block style muzzleloader for years. Very accurate and fun. I once contacted Pedersoli about them modifying and offering a Sharps model to muzzleloader in a similar fashion. In my mind it would be relatively easy. Plug the breech (unchambered) with a plug containing a cap nipple or 210 shotgun primer insert (similar to the rolling block model) and add ramrod and ferrules. Dropping the lever would expose the cap/primer insert to prime the rifle. The firing pin route should still work fine for either cap or primer.

Never heard a reply...oh well!

 

[RCE1]

The old timers used to do breech muzzle loading of target rifles. A powdered case with a wad in the case mouth was inserted in the breech and the bullet was loaded from the muzzle, preferably with a detachable barrel extension as an aid. The idea was to get the soft lead slugs used at the time perfectly aligned and engaged with the rifling. The extension was made at the same time as the barrel for perfect registration.

 

[357Mag]

Ok,
I am curious if the Sharps Black Powder rifles/carbines can be loaded from the muzzle with any reasonable success?
Has anyone ever done so and willing to comment?

Yes, a strange line of thought for a breech loading paper cartridge BP gun, I know...

I have a Pedersoli Carbine and I'd like to use it in Ohio's musket/BP season this year. I find it handy.

I believe i could drill a small hole in trigger guard and tang, and tap for something like a 10-32 screw to hold the trigger guard "closed". Either that or something internal to block the lock from sliding. Thinking maybe to appease the state as far as making it a "muzzle loader".

Where I hesitate a bit is the chamber of the sharps. Assuming I can "ram" down a bullet on a powder charge, will I have an issue?

Sling-

Howdy!

You did not state which model carbine you have.

Thinking out loud....an 1859 Sharps ( for example ) can be loaded from the muzzle, as shown from history. Powder can be loaded directly into the chamber loose, w/o having to use a " cartridge " . The breech seals in pressure via use of a crush washer, or in more recent times... via use of an " O " ring.

Along the lines of what " Prose" said, I imagine the law intends for the hunter to use a
" muzzle loader " w/ a " fixed breech " ? THE fly in the ointment of your idea ?


With regards,
357Mag

 

[slingworks]

Sling-

Howdy!

You did not state which model carbine you have.

Thinking out loud....an 1859 Sharps ( for example ) can be loaded from the muzzle, as shown from history. Powder can be loaded directly into the chamber loose, w/o having to use a " cartridge " . The breech seals in pressure via use of a crush washer, or in more recent times... via use of an " O " ring.

Along the lines of what " Prose" said, I imagine the law intends for the hunter to use a
" muzzle loader " w/ a " fixed breech " ? THE fly in the ointment of your idea ?


With regards,
357Mag

Pretty much so....any rifle can be used so long as you can ONLY load from the muzzle. Smokeless,BP etc. I'd like to use this sharps for regular season w caps and cartridges and BP with cap and loose powder. Fixed breech yes-when it comes to loading the projectile and powder. Modern primers are ok if used in cartridge case. (like the most recent Remington ML rifle).

 

[DirtySteve]

In the late 1800's Edwin Perry, a one armed shooter, would load his 1874 Sharps rifle from the muzzle. He would chamber a primed case. Then pour the powder down the muzzle. After that he would place a paper patched bullet in the bore and push it down the bore to rest on top of the powder charge. The powder charge had to fill the case completely(plus a tiny bit more) so the paper would not be damaged by the case mouth. You can read his book, Modern Observation in Rifle Shooting it can be downloaded from the US Library of Congress website.

 

[B y r o n]

And I'm curious why you would damage a good Sharps instead of just buying a muzzle loader?

 

[slingworks]

And I'm curious why you would damage a good Sharps instead of just buying a muzzle loader?

I have muzzle loaders....I just like the feel of the Sharps. Do you ask that question to everyone here who has purchased a factory rifle and then customized/re-barreled it? Have you ever bedded, accurized or barreled/rechambered any rifle?

"I'm just curious why you would damage a good rifle instead of just buying a more accurate one?"

I'm not talking about an original Sharps......rather a recently made in Italy reproduction, still in full production rifle flowing off the assembly line at this very moment.

Why not?

 

[B y r o n]

I have muzzle loaders....I just like the feel of the Sharps. Do you ask that question to everyone here who has purchased a factory rifle and then customized/re-barreled it? Have you ever bedded, accurized or barreled/rechambered any rifle?

"I'm just curious why you would damage a good rifle instead of just buying a more accurate one?"

I'm not talking about an original Sharps......rather a recently made in Italy reproduction, still in full production rifle flowing off the assembly line at this very moment.

Why not?

I asked because personally I couldn't see taking a $1,000 plus rifle and modifying it to do the job of a $500 plus or minus rifle. Never said anything about accuracy of rifle.

I have worked on rifles and made modifications. Usually to fix damage or enhance a short-coming it had.

You can do whatever you want to your property, I was just curious as to why you were thinking of doing what you were talking about doing, nothing more.

 

[Rook 6]

Assuming you seal the breach by whatever feasible method you come up with, I would wonder if the Warden would sign off? I have no idea.

 

[slingworks]

I asked because personally I couldn't see taking a $1,000 plus rifle and modifying it to do the job of a $500 plus or minus rifle. Never said anything about accuracy of rifle.

I have worked on rifles and made modifications. Usually to fix damage or enhance a short-coming it had.

You can do whatever you want to your property, I was just curious as to why you were thinking of doing what you were talking about doing, nothing more.

Assuming you seal the breach by whatever feasible method you come up with, I would wonder if the Warden would sign off? I have no idea.

He'd have no choice. I'd be compliant

 

[wboggs]

The old timers used to do breech muzzle loading of target rifles. A powdered case with a wad in the case mouth was inserted in the breech and the bullet was loaded from the muzzle, preferably with a detachable barrel extension as an aid. The idea was to get the soft lead slugs used at the time perfectly aligned and engaged with the rifling. The extension was made at the same time as the barrel for perfect registration.

Harry Pope comes to mind. I have seen one of his rifles with the false muzzle. 32-40 as I recall

 

[RCE1]

Harry Pope comes to mind. I have seen one of his rifles with the false muzzle. 32-40 as I recall

Exactly. A false muzzle. As I recall, they were built with a part that blocks the sights, so they weren't launched downrange inadvertently.

 

[clowdis]

The powder chamber in a Sharps is rarely filled by paper cartridges, it's larger than you think and will take a pretty large charge to fill it. If you don't fill it and then ram a bullet down from the muzzle and into the chamber cockeyed you're really going to have a problem. I'm sure your county LE are no dummies and it's pretty well known that once a breechloader always a breechloader. Like on AR15's, once you register a lower as a pistol lower it will always be a pistol lower regardless of what you put on top of it.

 

[ebb]

One of my neighbors has asked me and a friend several times about converting an Encore to a 30 caliber muzzle loader. His only purpose is to get it to the woods and shoot 308 win out of it. I am sure that the local squirrel police will be looking at it the same way.