Unexplained Fliers

[jsthntn247]

I have been developing a load with my 7RM with 24" barrel. When I shoot groups above 68 grains of h-1000 with a 162 SST I might put 4 in one hole then one or two off close to 1 inch in a random direction. My velocity with 67.9 grains average 2938, 68.2 2948, and 68.5 is 2945. While doing a ladder test, 67-68.5 grains only had .15" of vertical at 300 yards. So, I did a OCW test with 67.3-68.5 yesterday and below are the results. It appears to me that the OCW group is at 67.6 which has a avg velocity of 2930. Two part question do you think the OCW group is 67.6, and since my velocities level off after 68 am I getting unreliable powder burn which causes the fliers???

Here is the ladder test from last week at 300 yards.

 

[bozo699]

Your load is not in tune yet and you may have a problem with your stock touching where it shouldn't be, also check all your screws.
Wayne.

 

[jsthntn247]

Your load is not in tune yet and you may have a problem with your stock touching where it shouldn't be, also check all your screws.
Wayne.

I was hoping on sticking with 67.6 grains and adjusting the COAL next. Right now, I am .030 off the lands and was going to move in at .005 increments. The barrel is floated all the way and action has been bedded. Action Screws have benn tightened to 35in/lbs with a torque wrench.

 

[artbosco]

I have been developing a load with my 7RM with 24" barrel. When I shoot groups above 68 grains of h-1000 with a 162 SST I might put 4 in one hole then one or two off close to 1 inch in a random direction.

ARE YOU SHOOTING OVER WIND FLAGS?

HOW DID THE WIND CONDITION VARY FROM YOUR NORM OR THE PREVAILING CONDITION [THE CONDITION YOU SELECTED TO SHOOT OVER] WHEN YOUR FLIERS APPEARED?

NOT EVERYTHING IS LOAD OR RIFLE RELATED. THE WIND IS ALSO RESPONSIBLE FOR FLYERS!

FLYERS CAN APPEAR WHEN YOU PULL THE TRIGGER AT THE WRONG TIME, EVEN WITH A NATIONALLY COMPETITIVE RIFLE AND THE PERFECT LOAD.

 

[jsthntn247]

No wind, shot a 100 yards, and only get fliers when shooting above 68 grains. On the OCW test it looks to me that this is evident because the 68.2 groups on top right of target with a flier low and 68.5 groups on bottom right with flier high. I don't have a pic of the 69-701.5 target, but the fliers got further away from the central group when powder was increased. I wish I had quickload to run H-1000 through to see what the powder burn % rate was with a 24" barrel and charges from 67-71.5 grains. I am new at this guys, so please bear with me, just trying to learn a few things.

 

[artbosco]

the fliers got further away from the central group when powder was increased.

Solution? Don't increase the powder!

If you've got bullets going into the same hole with no wind, it sounds like you've found the load for your barrel.

Congratulations.

Now don't mess with it. Shoot the same: case, powder and load, bullet and primer, seating depth and neck tension, over and over again.

Putting bullets through the same hole will become boring after awhile, but that's something you'll just have to live with.

 

[bozo699]

the fliers got further away from the central group when powder was increased.

Solution? Don't increase the powder!

If you've got bullets going into the same hole with no wind, it sounds like you've found the load for your barrel.

Congratulations.

Now don't mess with it. Shoot the same: case, powder and load, bullet and primer, seating depth and neck tension, over and over again.

Putting bullets through the same hole will become boring after awhile, but that's something you'll just have to live with.

Huhhhh? I have spent a small fortune and gone through well over 100 barrels looking for the one hole gun, I haven't found the perfect one yet :'(
I am always a dollar short and a day late ;D
Wayne.

 

[BoydAllen]

What action, and stock? When you say bedded, how? Floated? how much? Barrel contour?

 

[Tozguy]

When you say you are new to this, please elaborate. If you are looking for benchrest accuracy from a 7RM as a green shooter then hold on a minute here. Those are excellent groups under the circumstances. There ain't no change in powder that will fix a flinch. I would guess that improving your bench manners and shooting ability will help the most at this point but I don't mean it in a bad way. I'm with Outdoorsman until further notice.

 

[jsthntn247]

What action, and stock? When you say bedded, how? Floated? how much? Barrel contour?

Action- Savage 110, barrel and action trued by gunsmith
Stock- Bell and Carlson
Bedded- Devcon bedded with tang floated
Floated- All the way to the SSS recoil lug
Barrel- 24" 1:9 McGowan select match .833 at muzzle with custom brake
Scope- 6.5-20x50 Vortex Viper
Trigger- Rifle Basix set at 2lbs.
Painted- Barrel, action, and stock duracoated


I agree with the more trigger time comment. I just want to make sure that I am doing it with the right load. I am a wildlife biologist by trade, I guess I just always want to know the reason things happen or at least have a hypothesis about it that I can test. I have a .223 that I built myself the same way and I can get sub .25 moa out of it out to 400 yards with my handloads. A beginner, yes, but a novice by no means.

 

[Flouncer]

A beginner by all means.

Your 7mm mag recoils an order of magnitude greater than your .223. I would very carefully analyze your shooting.

Bags or bipod ?

Free recoil or ??

Watch someone else shoot your weapon. Have them change styles, i.e. loose or grip clamp tight. Watch the barrel jump.

See anything ???

 

[artbosco]

the fliers got further away from the central group when powder was increased.

Solution? Don't increase the powder!

If you've got bullets going into the same hole with no wind, it sounds like you've found the load for your barrel.

Congratulations.

Now don't mess with it. Shoot the same: case, powder and load, bullet and primer, seating depth and neck tension, over and over again.

Putting bullets through the same hole will become boring after awhile, but that's something you'll just have to live with.

Huhhhh? I have spent a small fortune and gone through well over 100 barrels looking for the one hole gun, I haven't found the perfect one yet :'(
I am always a dollar short and a day late ;D
Wayne.

Let Billy Stevens build you one: http://www.stevensaccuracy.com/html/benchrest.html He's built two for me. Krieger barrels are all we use.

 

[bozo699]

jsthntn247,
I miss read your op I thought you were shooting a 7br sorry about that. I don't believe for what you are shooting your doing all that bad, if your shooting off a rest try changing where your forearm sits, if your shooting off a bi-pod pre load it some if your already pre loading it then stop it, try some extra hearing protection, you may be flinching some from the report of the brake. Take your 67.6 grain load and see if it will repeat several times, if it does try changing the seating depth some, it looks like it is 5/8" or under right now. If your able to shoot you .223 sub 1/4" then you can obviously shoot, the big seven just isn't as easy to shoot as the .223 Are you setting your headspace off the shoulder and if so how much?
Wayne.

 

[bozo699]

the fliers got further away from the central group when powder was increased.

Solution? Don't increase the powder!

If you've got bullets going into the same hole with no wind, it sounds like you've found the load for your barrel.

Congratulations.

Now don't mess with it. Shoot the same: case, powder and load, bullet and primer, seating depth and neck tension, over and over again.

Putting bullets through the same hole will become boring after awhile, but that's something you'll just have to live with.

Huhhhh? I have spent a small fortune and gone through well over 100 barrels looking for the one hole gun, I haven't found the perfect one yet :'(
I am always a dollar short and a day late ;D
Wayne.

Let Billy Stevens build you one: http://www.stevensaccuracy.com/html/benchrest.html He's built two for me. Krieger barrels are all we use.

Outdoorsman,
I was just being facetious, however I REALLY like the red/white/and blue at the bottom of his page Wat a beautiful rifle, very patriotic thanks for the link.
Wayne.

 

[artbosco]

What action, and stock? When you say bedded, how? Floated? how much? Barrel contour?

Action- Savage 110, barrel and action trued by gunsmith
Stock- Bell and Carlson
Bedded- Devcon bedded with tang floated
Floated- All the way to the SSS recoil lug
Barrel- 24" 1:9 McGowan select match .833 at muzzle with custom brake
Scope- 6.5-20x50 Vortex Viper
Trigger- Rifle Basix set at 2lbs.
Painted- Barrel, action, and stock duracoated


I agree with the more trigger time comment. I just want to make sure that I am doing it with the right load. I am a wildlife biologist by trade, I guess I just always want to know the reason things happen or at least have a hypothesis about it that I can test. I have a .223 that I built myself the same way and I can get sub .25 moa out of it out to 400 yards with my handloads. A beginner, yes, but a novice by no means.

Given what you're working with, you're doing mighty fine. Having said that, your configuration may have hit its plateau.

Set the Basix trigger at 4 ounces if that's the one that will go that low, seriously, get rid of the muzzel brake/bullet slinger, put a Krieger barrel on it, then see what happens.

 

[jsthntn247]

Outdoorsman, the rifle busted my head twice last year as a factory 110. I must just be a puss but I really like that muzzle brake ;D, and if .5 moa is all its capable of then that is perfectly fine by me considering the $ I have in the rifle. I actually felt like my form was pretty good when shooting, I could acutally see the holes pop in the paper and the dirt fly up in the scope on most of the shots. I was looking for a good hunting rifle when I decided to build this one. If it maintains .5 moa at 600(max shooting distance for now) then I shoud never miss.Lol. Thanks for the help fella's.

 

[bozo699]

Outdoorsman, the rifle busted my head twice last year as a factory 110. I must just be a puss but I really like that muzzle brake ;D, and if .5 moa is all its capable of then that is perfectly fine by me considering the $ I have in the rifle. I actually felt like my form was pretty good when shooting, I could acutally see the holes pop in the paper and the dirt fly up in the scope on most of the shots. I was looking for a good hunting rifle when I decided to build this one. If it maintains .5 moa at 600(max shooting distance for now) then I shoud never miss.Lol. Thanks for the help fella's.

Very well put jsthntn247, you took your criticism well, I enjoyed your thread and hope to hear more from you, Welcome to the forum
Wayne.

 

[lynn]

Jsthntn247
A couple things for next time.
1st If it was my rifle I would have started with the bullets seated into the lands.
Second the load window on a 6BR or 6 Dasher is 0.5 grains wide.The load window on a 300 Ackley is 2.5 grains wide.The 6BR and 6 Dasher like a load from 30-34 grains of powder.The 300 Ackley likes around 75-78 grains of powder.That being said the load window on a 7mm Remington Magnum is roughly 1.5 - 2.0 grains wide.That means all of your loads might be great in your particular rifle once the seating depth is dialed in.
3rd nothing you can do will affect your group sizes like finding the right seating depth.
4th once you find what looks like your best seating depth re-run your ladder test.
Lynn

 

[ordnancemarine]

I blame Obama... SOB ruins everything!

 

[bozo699]

I blame Obama... SOB ruins everything!

I don't care who you are that's funny right there!! and absolutely spot on
Wayne.