Under gunned on elk hunt ughh

[jakelly]

I would honestly like to hear you guys talk about bow hunting. The animal hears the shot and reacts to it before the projectile arrives. You often hold where you think your target will be and not where it is at the moment the shot breaks. Moving arrow moving target, what is your self imposed bow range limit, 15 or 20? Anything beyond that is unethical, right? Not to mention that you’re usually up a tree where the wind may or may not be the same. The real nail in the coffin of this debate is the real world data, more animals lost by a factor of five to ten. I watch enough bow hunting videos where shots are very long (70), to know that very very long shots are being taken.

The reality is that, with a few exceptions for crazy conditions, 600 yds is a chip shot with the tools available today. I helped a friend put together a rifle for an elk hunt. Guy is not an every week shooter. 155 scenar at 3400 fps out of a 300 WSM, rifle was sub MOA, lower tier rangefinder, $7 phone ballistics ap, and a $500 Vortex. 550yd perfect shot on a 5x5. No chance to get closer before the elk moved onto private land. He said the look of amazement and pride on his Dad’s face was worth three times what he had in the rifle.

 

[pikespeakgoat]

OP, great for you realizing and accepting your self set limitations.

It seems like these types of discussions happen more and more each year......folks argue what is and what is not ethical for others to adhere to with regards to hunting animals.

I personally believe that a person, just like the OP willingly did, must realize and accept our individual limitations, whether that is based on skill, equipment other reasons.

I firmly believe that we as hunters, explicitly owe this to the animals we hunt!

I also firmly believe that a person must be honest with themselves regarding their abilities and limitations and that of their equipment.

Furthermore, a person must be competent, and confident, not only with their abilities, but with their equipment.

I can state factually that I have experienced with my own eyes way more animals (deer and elk) wounded by slob weekend warriors at ranges in the neighborhood of 100 yards than at any other distance. You know the types....they don't shoot a single round all year, have no idea if their equipment is up to the task, etc...

I know and set my individual limits based on my abilities, my confidence and my equipment with regard to the respect our quarry deserves.

 

[vbirddogs]

Anybody that has spent time hunting elk will tell you that the modern fad of the 6.5 isn't a good choice, unfortunately so many people parrot what they read on the BSnet that new hunters think that any 6mm cartridge will be fine - they aren't.

The .308 and 30-06 are common for a reason, they work. The .308 will drop elk reliably out to 500 yards and the 30-06 can stretch that range to 700 yards or so, any shot past those ranges is irresponsible and unethical. There are far too many variables that can effect the shot past 600 yards and it's just wrong to take live game past that range. There isn't any ethical reason to take a long range shot and while tons of people will brag about their successful 1000 yard plus shot they wont mention how many times they've wounded animals and lost them.

None of us will go hungry if we don't drop that animal so why take questionable shots with under-powered cartridges at unreasonable distances and possibly cause the animal to suffer a needless death.

I agree with you about "taking that ethical shot". But, there are so many things I don't agree with you on. One, saying a .308 is a great cartridge, but not a 6.5, that's insane. The Ballistics for the two are almost identical out to 500. At that point the 6.5 runs away from the .308. A 6.5 is more than an acceptable choice of cartridge for elk; the 6.5 is the go-to caliber for Moose for most Norwegians. I don't believe for a second that building a .338 is the answer either. Most guys can't shoot those magnums very well either. Also, I don't think your statement that shooting an animal past 600 is "wrong". I do A LOT of distance shooting, and 600 yards is NOT THAT FAR!!! The key to ALL this is: 1) Knowing one's skill level, equipment, and one's abilities (most hunters know either). 2) Being trained well at the distances you expect to shoot. (most hunters are not) 3) Having GOOD equipment!!! Especially a good range finder if you plan to stretch your limits with range. Again, I agree, you ALWAYS want to take "that best, ethical shot you can". It's only fair to the animals!!! And like you said, none of use are going hungry without killing that animal. That being said, let me finish with this. The best man in my wedding was a guide for Elk and Deer in Colorado for years. And his opinion is, the .270 is more than enough to take Elk and he feels it's one of the best cartridges for doing so.

 

[vbirddogs]

Thanks everyone! The area was pretty thick, so I assumed everything would be inside 150 yards so I took my 6.5. Wow was I wrong! Now that Ive done it, I see the tough choice. Lugging around a long 338 would be a pain and would be hitting branches. I wonder how a 300 wsm 23” barrel would do? Im setting my limit next time to 500 yards. No more 6.5 cal for me. The barrel length to get the speed/energy was extremely annoying to carry. I appreciate the positive feedback, because when I got back to camp, people were pissed at me for not taking the shot. Wind was calm, I know I could place the shot. But the guilt of a wounded animal would haunt the hell out of me.

You are VERY WRONG to think that your 6.5 was under-gunned!!! Very wrong!!! You are absolutely fine with that gun. In Norway, the 6.5 is the go-to gun for moose. I lived in So. West Colorado (Durango) for years, and I've killed my fair share of elk. I never used anything bigger than a .308. I also would say, I wouldn't hesitate to take a 600 yrd shot on an elk with a 6.5 Creedmoor if the shot was clean, and the animal presented itself to me in a clean manner; (and with your 6.5 x 284) you're probably shooting higher velocities than I would with the Creedmoor. Using the Hornady 143 eld-x is a great choice of bullets. (Look at Hornady's list of animals killed with that bullet, that will help you understand this). Second, don't listen to guys on here that say the .308 is acceptable, but not the 6.5, and that you need a BIG GUN like a 7 mag, 300 mag, .338. That's just Crazy!!! I have a .300 wsm and I can tell you, that would not be my go-to gun for an elk hunt. The ballistics of the .308 out to 400-500 yrds are almost identical to the 6.5 Creedmoor. Past that the 6.5 walks away from the .308. The biggest points I pointed out above are this: You have to know, and have a REAL understanding of your abilities (most hunters do not). You really have to know your gun, trajectory, velocities, ranges, etc. and what your abilities are shooting that gun. For me, a 600 yrd shot is NOT that far. But, I spend A LOT of time behind my gun, and put HUNDREDS AND HUNDREDS of rounds down range; and not just on the range, but in PRS matches, F-Class matches, and freestyle. BUT, for someone else, that's way beyond their abilities, and experience. Like I pointed out also above, my best friend guided for elk for years in Colorado, and he feels the .270 is the best cartridge for elk. Of course, I'd put my 6.5 against him any day of the week. LOL.