unburned powder

[gaboon]

My 6 Dasher is leaving unburnt powder in the barrel. Shooting light jam.
33.2gns varget
105gn bullet
3052 fps
CCI 450 primers
Not sure what is happening.

 

[msinc]

Is it a lot of unburned powder or just some??? How long is the barrel?? Does the residue look like carbon {dark} or is it kind of like a tan color and/or still in the form of powder kernels???

 

[Texan]

Is it possible that something in your routine is leaving contaminants (oil, sizing lube, etc.) inside the cases?

 

[gaboon]

28in barrel and the kernels are black and hard. Looks like half kernels. No contaminates in the brass. The whole barrel is lined with it after I shot 10 rounds.

 

[Kurz]

The whole barrel is lined with it after I shot 10 rounds.

Wouldn't each preceding bullet push the deposited residue out of the barrel? In essence, it's only the residue from the 10th shot which is left in the barrel.

A simple test would be to use a dry patch to push the residue out of the barrel and onto a piece of aluminum foil. See if it will ignite with a match. If not, it's a form of fouling. I've seen this in a couple of my barrels and it was fouling not powder residue.

Maybe a slight adjustment in the neck tension would help?

Regards.

 

[msinc]

Based on the numbers, 3000 plus fps, 28 inch pipe and 105 grain bullet with 33 grains of powder it seems like to me the combo should really be burning it all. Given the numbers, if you try the test kurz suggests above and it burns then you definitely know. However, if it doesn't burn then you still might not...if it is powder and it is un-burned and still wont when you try to light it then there is a reason it didn't burn in the barrel and not burning later don't necessarily tell you that it is not powder or that it is strictly fouling.
I have never really had any luck with Varget and I have often wondered about many folks fascination with it. But, just because it doesn't work for me in my combos don't mean it should be dismissed by no means. It is one of the first powders to claim to help stop copper fouling. When burned it produces some kind of coating to keep copper from sticking/smearing in the bore. Many people remark about how "dirty" it is or how much "clean up" it requires. I don't know, maybe you got a bad batch???? Try a similar speed powder and see what happens.

 

[gaboon]

It's the first time using varget and I thought rl15 was dirty. But this fouling takes the Cake. I guess I'm going to try vv140 or h4895.

 

[dkhunt14]

It's the first time using varget and I thought rl15 was dirty. But this fouling takes the Cake. I guess I'm going to try vv140 or h4895.

Reloader 15 has a lot of graphite in it. It will always appear black dirty. 28 inches of barrel is plenty to burn that load of Varget. Maybe a bad lot or it got contaminated by oil or something. I always had better luck with a BR4 primer with Varget. It doesn't need a magnum primer. I use the 450 with Re 15. Most guys use that combo with each.

Sounds like the powder is burning if it is black. If it wasn't it would be greenish yellow. Matt

 

[mongo chicago]

I use Varget in my 6mm Remington and I think it is pretty clean. Also, if you have that much unburnt powder left in the barrel, I would think you would also have a very large muzzle flash when you shoot.

 

[Webster]

My 6 Dasher is leaving unburnt powder in the barrel. Shooting light jam.
33.2gns varget
105gn bullet
3052 fps
CCI 450 primers
Not sure what is happening.

Don't understand how powder would not burn at 55,000 PSI and 2000 - 3000 degrees F. Look at the shape of the particles with a magnifying glass. If a kernel started to burn why would it stop part way?

 

[Texas10]

I hate to say this, but I may have the same thing going on in my 308. Just popped the primers out of a batch I shot at the range Sunday in preparation for annealing. Didn't re-size, just popped out the primers.
Got the salt bath annealer going and started annealing. I noticed smoke rising out of the flash hole as it sat in the salt bath for about 7 seconds at 1000 degrees F. And as I removed it from the bath, a flash of flame burst out of the mouth of the case. This happened several times. No sizing lube involved, straight from the loading tray to the die, to the annealer.

This particular brass was loaded with IMR4320, if that make any difference, and booking about 2800 fps with a 150 gr. Sierra BT. Not a max load, but fairly accurate. I will say the 4320 doesn't leave the brass as clean after firing as does IMR3031. That load leaves the cases very clean.

 

[Kurz]

Don't understand how powder would not burn at 55,000 PSI and 2000 - 3000 degrees F.

Not all powder is created equal. The primer does not ignite all of the powder at one time, it burns progressively from back to front. Once the pressure builds enough to overcome the friction of the bullet retained in the neck, the bullet moves down the barrel pushed by the burning gases called plasma.

This is a very short, animated explanation given by a very nice looking woman...

If that pressure builds faster prior to all of the powder getting ignited, the unburned powder rides on the pressure wave at the front of the super heated plasma. In some combinations, a small amount of the powder may never burn before leaving the muzzle of the rifle. We demonstrated this by putting old white sheets on the ground below and in front of a rifle (usually on a bench), firing one shot then examining the sheet carefully. Some inefficient load combinations eject quite a bit of unburned powder. An exaggerated example would be a very slow powder in a small capacity case such as Retumbo in your 6 Dasher.

Also, if you have that much unburnt powder left in the barrel, I would think you would also have a very large muzzle flash when you shoot.

Muzzle flash is the result of the super heated plasma exiting the muzzle before it cools sufficiently inside the barrel. The higher the temperature of the plasma upon exit, the bigger the flash. Conversely, of course, the cooler the plasma, the smaller the flash.

Regards.

 

[Ringostar]

Kurz, You should know who the woman is in that video. Women's world champion pistol shooter Jessie Duff

 

[M-61]

Varget is the dirtiest powder I have used. Accuracy was quite good in a number of different cartridges. I was just getting 'sucked' into the "VARGET IS THE ONLY POWDER" thing just about the time the last great shortage struck. Thought I was screwed. Then I merely did what I always had done before Varget, and that was search and try other powders that were available. Well I found out ,for me, they were more accurate and didn't leave a sewer pipelooking barrel. The great shortage passed and I never have bought nor looked for Varget again.

 

[Kurz]

Kurz, You should know who the woman is in that video. Women's world champion pistol shooter Jessie Duff

Must have been a brain f**t. I knew she looked familiar but at that particular point in time, I went blank.

 

[jsthntn247]

Kurz, You should know who the woman is in that video. Women's world champion pistol shooter Jessie Duff

Yep, she does it for me!! She just married the wrong man from Mississippi is all.

 

[JLT]

Not all powder is created equal. The primer does not ignite all of the powder at one time, it burns progressively from back to front. Once the pressure builds enough to overcome the friction of the bullet retained in the neck, the bullet moves down the barrel pushed by the burning gases called plasma.

This is a very short, animated explanation given by a very nice looking woman...

If that pressure builds faster prior to all of the powder getting ignited, the unburned powder rides on the pressure wave at the front of the super heated plasma. In some combinations, a small amount of the powder may never burn before leaving the muzzle of the rifle. We demonstrated this by putting old white sheets on the ground below and in front of a rifle (usually on a bench), firing one shot then examining the sheet carefully. Some inefficient load combinations eject quite a bit of unburned powder. An exaggerated example would be a very slow powder in a small capacity case such as Retumbo in your 6 Dasher.



Muzzle flash is the result of the super heated plasma exiting the muzzle before it cools sufficiently inside the barrel. The higher the temperature of the plasma upon exit, the bigger the flash. Conversely, of course, the cooler the plasma, the smaller the flash.

Regards.

Anyone with prior (or current) military service ever spend some time firing an M2/GAU-18 with the light (36") barrel? Then you know that after a belt or two, you can sweep up quite a pile of unburned powder in front of the gun position.

 

[gaboon]

It's shoots good after 10 rounds it lines the bottom of the barrel. I don't like it. I guess I've been spoiled by using VV powders. RL 15 is cleaner than varget doesn't leave kernels in the barrel.

 

[243winxb]

Could it be a Decoppering agent? The msds doesn't show any as an additive.
https://www.google.com/patents/US20050115452 de-coppering additive patent.

The decoppering agent can contain all kinds of suitable tin and bismuth compounds. Some suitable compounds are selected from the group consisting of metallic bismuth, bismuth alloys, bismuth compounds, metallic tin, tin alloys and tin compounds. The bismuth and tin either vaporizes or liquifies when the propellant is ignited and either embrittles or dissolves the copper deposits facilitating removal.

a mixture of tin and bismuth is a very good decoppering agent