Ultrasonic cleaner recommendations.

[AllanR21]

I am at the point where I want a very good high efficiency unit for cleaning my brass faster. I already have a Hornady unit and its OK but I want a larger unit with more transducers so I can get more brass done at one time. The hornady doesn't really clean inside and out perfectly either, even after I leave the brass in there for a 90 minutes with the heat way up. The inside of the cases are sporadically cleaned. Some are spotless and some aren't.

I also thought of buying two smaller units too. I think the transducers are very important. The hornady has two. I'd like at least four in each unit.

Any suggestions would be appreciated. For reference, I've been looking at Elma, which my friend has but wanted to see what others might be using too.

Thanks.

Allan.

 

[bsekf]

Lots of commercial units available, just remember, you get what you pay for. High end commercial is very expensive.

 

[rox]

The hornady doesn't really clean inside and out perfectly either, even after I leave the brass in there for a 90 minutes

Like you I started with a small ultrasonic (the same as the small Hornady model, but without 'Hornady' written on it). After much experimentation with different solutions, different numbers of cases and different means of suspending the cases, I bought a larger commercial model. I experienced all the same problems. I then bought a stainless media rotary tumbler; great results but moderate capacity (about 100 x .308) and finally I added a Dillon CV2001 vibratory tumbler (great capacity - 500 x .308, good for polishing, delubing, initial external cleaning, but doesn't clean the interior or primer pocket like the stainless tumbler). Now I use the stainless and/or the vibratory and I'm very happy with the results, but I only use the small ultrasonic for cleaning triggers etc. Maybe there are solutions and cleaners that make ultrasonic cleaning work for reasonable numbers of cases, but I gave up trying to find them.

..

 

[Webster]

I worked with an expensive ultra sonic cleaner every day at work. I wouldn't expect it to remove anything except Loosely adhering material. You need to tumble clean the cases.

 

[mikegaiz]

Skip the ultrasonic for brass. I have a good one and the Stainless steel media is way better. For cleaning pistols Brownell's sells a nice unit for around $400., works great.

 

[AllanR21]

My issue with the stainless media was what it did to the necks. It curles and bangs them up pretty bad.

I always tumble in my Dillon after ultra sonic cleaning. Maybe to much work but I do like the brass clean as it can be

 

[mikegaiz]

The neck damage is due to the speed of your tumbler not the ss pins. slow it down.

 

[Fullyloaded]

I have a home made SS tumbler. After hunting down parts on the cheap I have $110 total in it and that includes the SS media. I can do 5 lbs of brass at a time and can double that by adding another 5 lbs of SS media. So far I have tumbled +12k cases. I have not experienced any case damage from the tumbler. I have done 9mm, 40, 45, 223, 308, 30-06 and have had exceptional results. I almost bought a sonic cleaner and am glad I didn't.

 

[jlow]

I worked with an expensive ultra sonic cleaner every day at work. I wouldn't expect it to remove anything except Loosely adhering material. You need to tumble clean the cases.

This is exactly correct. I have done the regular corn corb/walnut tumbling, SS media tumbling, and ultra sonic with a commercial quality unit from UltrasonicDirect.com for quite a few years. So a few observations:

1) NONE of them will do huge number of brass at a time i.e. more than a few hundred with the SS media working the most efficient.

2) In terms of how well the brass is cleaned, NOTHING will clean inside and outside as well as SS media.

3) The SS media will clean the inside of your neck and if you want to keep the carbon as a lubricant, this will be a problem.

4) The SS media method will cause neck peening if you use too many pieces of brass and not enough media because the brass will collide and cause the peening. The solution to this is simple, reduced the number of brass, double the SS media from 5 to 10 lb, and reduce tumbling time to 1 hour or less.

5) The ultrasonic still is useful for me to clean the lube off the brass after I anneal, size, trim length, chamfer/debur as this is the gentlest method. As rox, I also find the unit perfect for cleaning rifle and handgun parts.

6) The only thing I use the regular corn corb/walnut tumbling now for is to take the powder lube off steel case rounds I use for plinking.

 

[fredhorace77]

jerry uses a cement mixer. for high volume

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5y_dsP3dsM

 

[jlow]

One can of course scale up any method but I presume the OP is only thinking along commercially available units of reasonable size and cost.

 

[blastit37]

I don't understand the negative reports using ultrasonic cleaners. All you need to clean brass is a minimum of 150w of power, a couple of tablespoons of citric acid per 400ml beaker and a little Dial soap. Cleans any of my brass inside and out (including primer pocket) in about 20 minutes -spotless. Rinse in baking soda to shine up and add a little passivisation, then rinse in clean water and blow dry with my air compressor. Use water in the ultrasonic cleaner and hold the brass in the beaker, each beaker holds 22 3006 cases, 2 beakers per load. A 150w cleaner is around $200 on e-bay.

 

[jlow]

I must say that I read your comments with interest. I have a Sharpertech SH180-6L US cleaner which is commercial one rated at 750W. I have tried using Lemishine (citric acid), and Dawn soap for 20 min and I have never found the primer pocket and inside clean. The brass is shiny outside but that is about it. FWIW, I did not put the brass (not a lot around 50 223 cases) in a beaker but in the basket that comes with the unit. One thing we might be doing differently is I fill the tank to the top with the cleaning solution which is what is recommended by the maker.

 

[Jay Christopherson]

I'll say that I was a hardcore US user until recently, until I read up on selective leaching (dezincification). FWIW. That, coupled with the issues I had with "squeaky clean" necks, led me to change my cleaning method. I'm not advocating one way or the other, you do what you like and what works for you. Just my $.02.

 

[blastit37]

jlow: Try laying the brass on the bottom of the cleaner without the basket. I believe the vibrations need direct contact to be most efficient.

 

[jlow]

I don’t think laying the brass on the bottom is the answer. The reason being the manufacturer specifically states in the “To prevent damage to the cleaner” section to “Do not place parts or containers directly on the bottom of the cleaning tank; use a tray or wire to suspend items. Failure to comply may cause transducer damage and will void your warranty”.

One common misconception about US cleaners is that they work by using vibration to shake the dirt off – they don’t work that way. What happens is the transducer induce rapid compression and rarefaction waves in the liquid which tears it apart and produce a vacuum cavity in the liquid, when the cavity collapse, it creates a high temperature jet of plasma that impacts against a close surface and explode the dirt off the surface.

 

[Webster]

Dezincification only occurs under certain conditions. I steel wool cleaned a case and soaked it in water, Lemi-shine and Dawn detergent for 24 hours. There was no weight, color or texture change. The case had the same appearance as when it was originally steel wool cleaned.

 

[blastit37]

The mfgr. of my cleaner recommended using the beaker to hold the items to be cleaned. It seams to increase the intensity of the US. I have found that using the basket supplied to hold the parts, results in less intensity in the cleaning action. The glass beaker transfers higher intensity. You can feel the difference by placing your finger on the parts during cleaning. I have tried a plastic mayo jar and it worked better than the basket but not as well as glass. My suggestion was to try it and see if greater intensity would help. It won't hurt the unit to do a short test. By the way, great description of the cleaning action of US. Or not-works great for me.

 

[jlow]

I just called SharperTech and ask them about using the beaker. Unfortunately, they gave me the thumbs down on it saying that it can damage the unit. Their suggestion was to use a special solution 1852 at 130 degree which they sell that is made to take off metal oxide – might try it.

http://www.ultrasonicsdirect.com/shclsoforreo.html

 

[Webster]

I don't understand why the manufacturer would tell you a beaker containing cleaning solution and parts may damage a US cleaner. I worked in a lab for 45 yrs using beakers in an ultra sonic cleaner. I think what they meant was the tank has to have fluid in it when you put the beaker into the tank with cleaning solution and parts. You cannot put the beaker containing solvent into a dry tank. It has to be surrounded by water. The purpose of using a beaker is you only have to toss out the dirty solution in the beaker so you don't contaminate the 1/2 gallon tank. You can quickly change to a clean or different solvents if it gets dirty. You probably start with a cleaning agent then switch to clean water several times for clean up. US cleaners that hold more than a 1/2 gallon have a SS tub that drops into the opening. You need to have water between the US tub and the SS insert tub or you burn up the transducer. The energy cannot transfer thru air into the insert tub. This causes the transducer to absorb huge amounts of heat. It may burn up or disbond from the bottom of the tub. The transducer is attached to the bottom of the tank with adhesive or epoxy. Never run the US without fluid in the tank. The point I am making is the ultra sound will transfer from the SS bottom of the tank , thru 1/8" of water into the SS insert tub and into the solution in a beaker in the insert tub. A good test to see if the US is generating a decent amount of energy into the tank fluid is to take a piece of aluminum kitchen foil about 1 0r 2 sq. inches and throw it in the tank or beaker for about 15-30 minutes. The US energy should perforate the foil with many holes. If you run it long enough the entire foil will disintegrate. Maybe a low wattage US cannot transfer energy into a beaker???