Ultralite Rifle Build help

[JigStick]

Im building an ultra lite 300wsm rifle using the following components so far:

Defiance Rebel XM Sheep Port
Defiance XM BDL bottom metal
Proof Research 1:10 twist 24in light sendero 30cal
Talley UL rings
Jewell Trigger6
Im having trouble with choosing a stock. I have it narrowed down to a Manners EH4 or Manners MCS-T (carbon fiber option).

Here is my dilemma. The EH4 is 29in long and weighs 26oz inletted. The MCS-T is 31.5in long and weighs 28oz. The stocks are identical except for length. Is it worth a 2oz weight hit to go with the longer stock? I have to believe that the longer stock will allow for more stable shooting off of a bipod, shooting sticks, offhand, etc....as the support point is closer to the muzzle.

Any insight?

 

[Larryh128]

2 oz means absolutely nothing, make sure the barrel is threaded for a brake.

 

[McMillan's ELRHQ]

I may be biased (I am 100% biased...) But I would recommend taking a look at our HTG or Game Hunter stocks in EDGE technology (mcmillanusa.com). They can be as light as 26 oz.

That said, 2 oz difference is practically not noticeable at all. Though ounces turn into pounds...

 

[Ledd Slinger]

AG Composites all carbon fiber CAT700. I have one in the long action version and it weighs around 22 oz. AG's stocks are as strong or stronger than anything on the market. Also more affordable than McMillan or Manners and no wait time. Plus better quality than McMillan and Manners in my opinion.

PS: dont skimp on scope rings. If it adds a couple ounces to use better quality rings that offer better hold on the scope, then so be it.

 

[onelastshot]

You are correct, the weight is maintained closer to the center of the rifle when using shooting sticks. Essentially you want to balance the rifle on the shooting sticks, keeping the weight away from the muzzle. For this reason the length of the stock makes no difference, as I indicated the weight of the rifle when shooting off of sticks is towards the center of the rifle.

 

[onelastshot]

You are correct, the weight is maintained closer to the center of the rifle when using shooting sticks. Essentially you want to balance the rifle on the shooting sticks, keeping the weight away from the muzzle. For this reason the length of the stock makes no difference, as I indicated the weight of the rifle when shooting off of sticks is towards the center of the rifle.

 

[Hal]

Check out NULA rifles.

Hal

 

[Flouncer]

AG Composites all carbon fiber CAT700. I have one in the long action version and it weighs around 22 oz. AG's stocks are as strong or stronger than anything on the market. Also more affordable than McMillan or Manners and no wait time. Plus better quality than McMillan and Manners in my opinion.

PS: dont skimp on scope rings. If it adds a couple ounces to use better quality rings that offer better hold on the scope, then so be it.

Just curious as the advertised weight of the stock is 26 os. - https://agcomposites.com/stock/3/ag-carbon-all-terrain-cat

FWIW my Tikka T3 Hunter wood stock weighs 24 oz. (without the recoil lug). Throwing away more of my valuable $0.02 - I don't see any advantage whatsoever, even in 300WM to heavy steel over aluminum rings IN A HUNTING RIFLE. Aluminum rings hold just as well any steel or titanium or anything else on this earth. This is not a problem area. It's clamping force and surface area. Skin friction. Aluminum is fine. What is your scope tube made of ???

 

[Hal]

Brown precision makes a 1 lb rifle stock.

Hal

 

[Ledd Slinger]

Just curious as the advertised weight of the stock is 26 os. - https://agcomposites.com/stock/3/ag-carbon-all-terrain-cat

FWIW my Tikka T3 Hunter wood stock weighs 24 oz. (without the recoil lug). Throwing away more of my valuable $0.02 - I don't see any advantage whatsoever, even in 300WM to heavy steel over aluminum rings IN A HUNTING RIFLE. Aluminum rings hold just as well any steel or titanium or anything else on this earth. This is not a problem area. It's clamping force and surface area. Skin friction. Aluminum is fine. What is your scope tube made of ???

After inletting for a large recoil lug and prior to applying bedding, my CAT700 long action stock with M24 barrel channel weighed right at 22 oz. Before I touched the stock, it weighed a little under 24 oz. It is what it is, take it or leave it. I have no reason to BS. The AG stocks are still more affordable, with quicker turnaround time, and better quality in my opinion. I have a Manners and it is a "P.O.S." compared to my AG stocks. I'll never buy another Manners. McMillan are good, but are way overpriced.

And who said anything about steel or titanium rings??? Dont put words in my mouth or assume a meaning I did not convey. I did not say or suggest anything of the sort.
I am talking more along the lines of using 6 screw rings or a one piece uni-mount. The only reason a person usually builds an ultralight hunting rifle is because they plan on doing some hard hiking in the hills or mountains with it. You take a fall and hit your scope with flimsy mounts holding it, your hunt just might be over. Been there, done that. Bedding the bases and rings Will also help a lot. Again take it or leave it. My words aren't part of the Ten Commandments. Just a suggestion. Makes no difference to me if a person takes the advice.

 

[Flouncer]

Ledd I read into the rings as most are emphatic on steel upgrade rings. They are not. I haven't fallen on my scope, but if I do, I doubt the rings will fail and not the scope. Regarding the ring accident, I think it's possible and unfortunate, but you will never know if stronger rings or anything else for that matter would have made a difference. Scope base and rings are rarely scrutinized to the level of the action and stock, good for pointing that out. I know it is abstract because we obsess on fine engineering and design, but look at the difference in weight between similar contour .264 and .323 barrels. More weight right there than these stocks save or lose. Do you recall the weight of the original stock, the one replaced by the AG ?

 

[Kurz]

With all due respect, these two topics; ultralight rifles and heavy for caliber bullets, have just about covered their usefulness.

How light can you go without compromising the rigidity and accuracy of any rifle in particular? You'll find when you get these stocks too light, you sacrifice both qualities, even when the manufacturer tells you they used carbon fiber. When the gunsmith tells you that you need to let him make some modifications to this ultralight stock, you can bet you will get a heavier stock. But it will perform better...maybe, hopefully. If the terrain is that rough where an ultralight is necessary in your eyes, you will be breathing so hard that your ultralight rifle will be swinging and swaying with every breath you take. Now try to hit your target...

Personally, I work out a little more, hike a little farther and carry a 9 lb rifle. As I age, I find that I need to get more exercise in order to maintain the performance I need for the hunting I choose to do. I do not need a Hubble scope for extreme terrain hunting or the biggest, baddest cartridge with the heaviest bullets I can stuff in the case. I study and do my 'due diligence' prior to the hunt and before selecting a cartridge or the design of the rifle. Then I build the rifle required and reload the cartridge necessary for the performance I demand.

Enjoy the process!

 

[alf]

Im building an ultra lite 300wsm rifle
Proof Research 1:10 twist 24in light sendero 30cal
Im having trouble with choosing a stock. I have it narrowed down to a Manners EH4 or Manners MCS-T (carbon fiber option).
Here is my dilemma. The EH4 is 29in long and weighs 26oz inletted. The MCS-T is 31.5in long and weighs 28oz. The stocks are identical except for length. Is it worth a 2oz weight hit to go with the longer stock? I have to believe that the longer stock will allow for more stable shooting off of a bipod, shooting sticks, offhand, etc....as the support point is closer to the muzzle.
Any insight?

While 2 ozs can add up over time, stocks can and do vary in finished weight, despite what they're advertised at.
I believe the EH4 would be better served in a build with a 22" or shorter barrel, due to the short forend. Also, it only takes up to a 5.5 contour, so regardless, your Sendero contour is going to be too fat.

So by default, I'd go with the MCS-T, if that is the only other choice on the table.

 

[B23]

I think the Manners EH4 is very similar-ish to the HS Prec stock on my Rem LTR which, like the EH4, is a couple inches shorter than normal. In all honesty, when I'm shooting my LTR, I don't even notice it's shorter than any of my others with the more standard length stock on them.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

Here's my new AG Composites 'Chalk Branch' carbon fiber stock that's going on my 300 NMI Hunter build. The Chalk Branch model is similar to a McMillan A5 (without adjustable cheek) but has a low profile forearm. Weight with 1" Decelerator recoil pad, sling studs, and pillars installed is 29.4 oz. Will weigh a little more after bedding is added. Very lightweight for a vertical grip style stock and insanely strong.

AG states on their website that this stock has an average weight of 31 oz. My stock is 1.6 oz lighter. And yes my scale is calibrated Would probably match claimed weight if it had a smaller channel for a sporter contour barrel, but this rifle will be wearing a Proof Sendero contour carbon barrel.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

Just noticed AG has a "Privateer" sporter model that has a claimed weight that is 2 oz. less than my other CAT 700 AG stock. Average claimed weight is 24 oz. Here's a link.

https://agcomposites.com/stock/10/ag-privateer

 

[Hydenseek]

decently small contour barrel, maybe a carbon stock and lighter weight scope. The rest of the weight we can control in the buffet line.

 

[Flouncer]

Custom stock weights. FWIW. Stock wood Tikka T3 Hunter including recoil pad and swivel studs, but no recoil lug - 28 oz. Light hunter barrel channel relief. No real attempts to lighten it. $400-$600 buys you 4 or 5 oz at best. As this is a build up with custom action the original stock is not an option but just pointing out the inherent goodness of the original 120 year old designs. 4 oz in 100 years. Wood is good. Maybe a throw away Rem 700 ADL woody is out there waiting for glory. Check in an engineering data manual the modulus, the thermal expansion of properties. vis a vis materials expanding, altering contact fitting surfaces, pressure, friction etc. Eye opener. Aluminum, as commonly used in "bedding blocks" the absolute worst.

$24 kMart Scale is dead on !

 

[dakor]

If the length of pull is the same I dont think you will notice one being 2 inch's shorter even off a bipod in theory the shorter stock would be stiffer if made out of the same materials.

I have used the Manners EH1 for a light weight build for a customer that rifle was a 300 win mag with a #3 benchmark finished at 27 1/4 plus the brake. It weighed 7lbs even with no scope.

If you want to drop weight I would lose the proof barrel and get a #2 Benchmark and finish it at 24". You wont be sorry that you did.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

Custom stock weights. FWIW. Stock wood Tikka T3 Hunter including recoil pad and swivel studs, but no recoil lug - 28 oz. Light hunter barrel channel relief. No real attempts to lighten it. $400-$600 buys you 4 or 5 oz at best. As this is a build up with custom action the original stock is not an option but just pointing out the inherent goodness of the original 120 year old designs. 4 oz in 100 years. Wood is good. Maybe a throw away Rem 700 ADL woody is out there waiting for glory. Check in an engineering data manual the modulus, the thermal expansion of properties. vis a vis materials expanding, altering contact fitting surfaces, pressure, friction etc. Eye opener. Aluminum, as commonly used in "bedding blocks" the absolute worst.

$24 kMart Scale is dead on !

That $400-$600 buys a person a lot more than 4-5 oz less weight. I love nice wood stocks, but they will never hold a candle to a carbon fiber stock for strength and durability. Nothing wrong with wood stocks. They just cant compete with carbon fiber. A carbon fiber stock built with the same physical specs of a wood stock is probably 100 times stronger.

Here's a video from AG composites that demonstrates the immense strength and durability of their 100% carbon fiber stocks