turning a morse taper

[Lacrymosa]

I know how to turn a taper on a lathe, but how do you turn a morse taper? I am not sure at what angle to set the compound rest.

 

[RonAKA]

Does this link help?

http://www.diracdelta.co.uk/science/source/m/o/morse%20taper/source.html

 

[Lacrymosa]

Thanks, that seams to be what I'm looking for. If I read the chart right I should set the compound rest to 1 degree?

 

[21shooter]

Hi , Ya better look at the chart again!
John

 

[paperpuncher]

You will need to set it up more carefully than setting to a number on the compound. Could you adapt a morse taper shank from a tool or drill to suit your needs.

 

[Lacrymosa]

If I must I can use an existing morse taper, but I would prefer to make it my self. Can someone explane the chart to me? It's probably pretty evident at this point that I don't know what I'm talking about.

 

[Robert]

If I must I can use an existing morse taper, but I would prefer to make it my self. Can someone explane the chart to me? It's probably pretty evident at this point that I don't know what I'm talking about.

Lacrysmosa,
Morse tapers vary depending the cone number. From 3,5 degree for Nr 1 to 8 degrees for number 6.
Of course compound is to be turned half this value.

Best I can recommend is to chuck an exisitin Morse taper same dimension as the one you intend to make, place a dial indicatir held well horizontal to centre in lieu of the cutting tool and move the compound slide along theexisting cone.

When indicator shows zero at bothe ends of the cone, you will be almost perfect from the start..
As long as the wosk progerss in small cuts, check the cone bearing with Prussian blue (or chalk) for bearing.
R.G.C

 

[clowdis]

If you follow Robert's instructions you will be fine. The index marks on the compounds aren't that accurate, but if you indicate an existing taper you'll duplicate the angle perfectly.

 

[butchlambert]

I guess that I don't understand why you would want to turn a Morse taper. To do it right it needs to be ground. Robert's method is right. This is the method I use on my chamber reamers when I prebore a chamber before running the reamer in.
Butch

 

[shortgrass]

Turning any machine tool holder taper? Only if there's no other option, and I have to! Cheap or poorly made tool holders only add to any mis-alinement already in the machine.

 

[Robert]

Turning any machine tool holder taper? Only if there's no other option, and I have to! Cheap or poorly made tool holders only add to any mis-alinement already in the machine.

Maybe Lacryrmosa only wants to learn something on machining and exert a skill. Making on the lathe a perfectly bearing MT is quite an accomplishment.

Whe I say perfectly bearing, I mean made only with the cutting tool and commpound slide with no firther artefacr finish made.....and the exercise to follow is to cut a female matching MT cone..That need patience and even more skill.
R.G.C

 

[Lacrymosa]

I think Robert is right. I am a high school engineering student taking a college level engineering class and I only want to learn something new. Perhaps I should have stated that in my first post.

 

[RonAKA]

Thanks, that seams to be what I'm looking for. If I read the chart right I should set the compound rest to 1 degree?

While I'm qualified to make a machining drawing, I have no experience in the hard part -- actually machining it so it matches the drawing! My read of the drawing and dimensions is that the approximate angle of the taper from the tool centerline is 1.5 degrees. But approximate is not good enough. They are using the degree, minute, seconds, method. So for example if we look at the #3 Morse Taper, it shows the 1/2 included angle (which I read to be from the tool centerline) is 1 deg 26' 15". the 26 minutes is 26/60 of a degree, and the 15 seconds is 15/60 of a minute. In the decimal system this works out to 1 deg and 26.25 minutes, or all calculated to degrees; 1.4375 degrees.

Not sure if you can set your compound to that accuracy? Since a Morse Taper depends purely on the fit and friction it likely has to be to 0.0001" accuracy to work. The table also gives a taper in inches per inch. I did a quick calculation and this is a diameter increase (Sine 1.4354 deg x 2). So again with the #3 Morse the diameter increases 0.05020 per inch. Over 3 inches it diameter would increase 0.1506". That may be a more accurate measure of the taper than degrees on the compound, but would likely require some trial and error with test pieces to get it right.

Hope that helps some,

 

[butchlambert]

Yes it would have helped. It seems to me that too many guys want to make things that are cheaper to purchase. I believe you can learn in the normal course of machining. Your time should be more valuable than that. Not speaking of you and your engineering course, just about some of the things some of the rest of us make.
By the way, I'm building a barrel vise instead of purchasing one.
Butch

 

[shortgrass]

If the OP had said he is a student & wanted to do it for the learning experience, I probably wouldn't have even replied. Tool holders, for machine tools, are a whole different class of "tools" than a barrel vise or action wrench. Make what ya' can, if you have the capabilities.

 

[Robert]

I think Robert is right. I am a high school engineering student taking a college level engineering class and I only want to learn something new. Perhaps I should have stated that in my first post.

In th industry, it will to dau e easer to fiinis a MT after hardening by cNC milling and programming by sloê instead as angles.....Nevertheess, the old fashion remais a, exercise of skill..

Personnally, I encourage you to do it you will have done something many seem to think difficult to make....howw ere they done n the old time without the machines and tools we hae to day.
I cannot programm a CNC grinder to make a MT..but I have made quite some on parallel lathe (too) long ago...
R.G.C

 

[shortgrass]

OK, as learning experience. How big is the lathe you will be using to make this MT sleeve/tool holder? 15 years ago I made a set of vertical mill tool holders with a Brown & Sharps #9 taper, out of nesessity! All the used tool holders I ran across were shot. There were no new to be had, only collets. The importers had not started importing stuff like this yet, that I could find , anyway. My lathe is a 13"x40". Compound travel is only a bit over 2 5/8". B&S #9 taper is about 4" long. A good friend, that owns a job shop, allowed me to come in and use his 16"x60" Monarch. The compound still didn't have 4" of travel. Cutting part way, moving the carriage, and continuing the cut without a visible (or measurable) 'step' or deviation, is quit a trick. I had ordered in 10' of 4140HT for material. Good for tool holders such as these for the same reasons it'd good for rifle receivers. My solution to the limitations of the lathes. Cut and machine each piece to the same length. Chuck the first up in the 4 jaw with about 1 1/2" sticking out. With both ends faced, center drill and drill all the way thru. Ream for tool shank size (1/2", 5/8", 3/4", ect.). Take a skim cut on the out side, just to clean up the 'mill' finish. Do these ops to all 'holders'. Time to change the set-up. Take the 4 jaw chuck off and put the 3 jaw on. Put a piece of steel (from the scrape box) in the 3 jaw , swing the compound around so you will be cutting a 60 deg. point on it. Put a lathe dog on the reamed end of the 'tool holder'. Put a live center in the tail stock. You now have a center on each end to support the work and the 'dog' to drive it. You're as close to the true center axis as you're going to get. Set up a dial indicator and off-set the tail stock the required amount so as to cut the proper taper (by the numbers). You now use the power feed on the carriage for turning. Turn to within .008 to .005 of the finished size. Take the tool post off of the compound and mount the tool post grinder. Finish the taper with the tool post grinder advancing it by setting up a dial indicator to measure tool advance instead of the dial on the handle, it's more precise. I would suggest turning the compound so it's parallel to cross slide travel and using the compound to advance the grinding wheel (it has a finer pitched thread than the cross slide does). When you have everything in usable position , lock the cross slide to help make the set-up more ridgid. Grind to size taking .0005" per pass. Use the power feed on the carriage, again. After all were tapered, I put the 4 jaw & tool post back on, mounted the 'head' end (the end with the reamed hole for the cutter) in the chuck, and drilled & tapped for the draw bar. Before I would do it again, I'd take a chance on, the now imported, B&S #9 tool holders from China for $125 + shipping. That's less then I paid for the 1 1/2'x10' bar of 4140HT 15 years ago. That little vertical mill, that was so cheap it was almost given to me, has saved the day many times when my Lagon was 'tied-up". Using the same process, you should be able to make your MT project.

 

[Robert]

Shortgrass raise a good point here about compound slide travel limitations. Rhis is the reason why large MT were originally made (aand are often still) made with a large groove in the middle, allowing the taper to be made in two steps….makung the exercise even more challenging…

R.G.C

 

[shortgrass]

Lacrymosa, you need to get yourself a copy of "Machinery's Handbook". Most anything you might want to know there, and some things you wished you didn't!

 

[buyboysellboy]

a correct morse taper needs to be ground. Period! Otherwise it will not hold in female holder. It will continually come loose.