Tungsten Disulphide (WS2)

[PMA3]

For those of you using this product, do you dip the case necks (coat the inside) or dip the bullet base, prior to seating, to obtain a more uniform seating pressure that would show up on the seating force measurement dial?

 

[Greyfox]

I've been using WS2 for more than a few years. I don't do either of those. I clean bullets with acetone, dry and tumble in a jar inside a Thumler with a small amount of WS2. Depending on the amount of bullets it takes an hour or so, but I've been know to let them turn all night. I remove and polish inside a tube sock or a large towel.

Rick

 

[Johnboy]

I think he is asking if you prep the necks of the case before seating the bullet.

 

[PMA3]

Johnboy,

I'm trying to find out WHO uses this stuff and HOW they use it......coat the inside of the case necks (like you would do if neck sizing with powdered graphite), coat the base of the bullets or both....in order to get a more consistent seating pressure, ie = lower ES.

 

[jo191145]

I've run a myriad of expieriments using ws2 back in the day. Coating the neck ids will definatly give more consistent seating pressures. That does not always correlate to lower ES as it usually lowers the tension/push pull load.
What I mean by push pull is some like to argue that tension is a mathematical measurement of the brass.
I personally believe friction is also related to tension. Boils down to what moves first, the bullet or the neck expanding and releasing the bullet. I go with bullet.

Long range or short range?

 

[Johnboy]

PMA3 got ya, and have to say that the last few post on this tuff has me thinking, I just might bite the bug. Molly seems to dirty in a good way, and the other stuff I'm just not sold on yet. I would love to try some without buying any but we both know how that goes. I still may try it though what would I lose right, who knows more money hehehe

But from what I've read they just coat the bullets with 177 BB's added into a plastic jar with a certain amount of the WS2 ( like 8 grains I think ) and depending on the size of jar will be the amount of BB's. Then put into a vibrating brass cleaner for 30 minutes to a hour depending on how they look. Then polishing in an old sock to help clean off the unwanted WS2.

 

[PMA3]

jo191145,

1000 yard BR.

 

[Greyfox]

But from what I've read they just coat the bullets with 177 BB's added into a plastic jar with a certain amount of the WS2 ( like 8 grains I think ) and depending on the size of jar will be the amount of BB's. Then put into a vibrating brass cleaner for 30 minutes to a hour depending on how they look. Then polishing in an old sock to help clean off the unwanted WS2.

Johnboy,
I tried the BB's a few times but saw no benefit, just more work involved separating. While I do use WS2 in everything I shoot from competition to deer hunting to prairie dogs I don't think there is any gain in accuracy. I use it to avoid cleaning between relays. I usually am able to shoot an entire agg (100 rds +) without cleaning or loss of accuracy. It is possible that barrel life may be increased due to less cleaning, but I wouldn't stake my life on that. There are a few people that will sell you a small amount ($20-30) without having to break the bank.

Understand, I'm not recommending or advocating the use of WS2, but I have used it for years with no ill effects or problems. YMMV.

Rick

 

[mikecr]

I coat bullets with it similar to Greyfox. I also pre-foul my bore after cleaning with a dry burnishing of it.

What you do to get rational/consistent seating forces is another matter(different thread). Personally, I see the carbon fouling inside necks, combined with reasonable sizing as the perfect solution here. IMO, if you have to 'dip' necks in anything, your plan isn't a very good one.

 

[PMA3]

mikecr,

I'm currently dipping my necks in powdered graphite to offset the squeaky clean inside necks I get after ultra sonic cleaning of the cases. I like everything about the sonic clean but those necks. I had planned to substitute the WS2 for the powdered graphite, thinking it may be a better coating.

 

[mikecr]

WS2 would work just like graphite, but it's pretty fine stuff(like moly). If not careful you can end up with it migrating everywhere.
It would be better controlled & applied if available like colloidal graphite. But I don't know how to create colloidal WS2..

 

[jlow]

mikecr,

I'm currently dipping my necks in powdered graphite to offset the squeaky clean inside necks I get after ultra sonic cleaning of the cases. I like everything about the sonic clean but those necks. I had planned to substitute the WS2 for the powdered graphite, thinking it may be a better coating.

I've tried this and although it does seem to have a lubricating effect, I was never able to get it to stick to the neck consistently to give consistent lubricating effect.

 

[jo191145]

jo191145,

1000 yard BR.

Thanks for the clarification. In that case ES is the holy grail as I assume you know. Personally I don't I'm just a short ranger where ES means nothing.

You should probably try ten of each over the chrono and see what it says. I fully understand the desire for prepping the necks with brass that's been cleaned thoroughly. Besides pure laziness that's the reason my sonic cleaner is in storage. There's no trophy for cleanest brass. I leave mine filthy now. I'll use graphite after annealing which mimics fouling in the neck the annealing somewhat removes and roughens.

You could also try more tension with prepped necks and less tension with un prepped necks. For short range accuracy much can be gained by these simple steps and while I can't claim any firsthand knowledge at 1000 yds if you can keep your speeds consistent inherent accuracy can only help further out.

 

[jo191145]

mikecr,

I'm currently dipping my necks in powdered graphite to offset the squeaky clean inside necks I get after ultra sonic cleaning of the cases. I like everything about the sonic clean but those necks. I had planned to substitute the WS2 for the powdered graphite, thinking it may be a better coating.

I've tried this and although it does seem to have a lubricating effect, I was never able to get it to stick to the neck consistently to give consistent lubricating effect.

Did you try putting a large amount of WS2 in a plastic bullet box with small lead shot? Worked great for me back in the day.
Wanna get totally crazy? Mix straight WS2 with rubbing alcohol in a bottle cap and twist it in the necks with a bore mop. Dries in a few minutes and leaves a plethora of lubricant behind that charging the case will not remove. Shouldn't be a necessary step but I have tried everything

 

[jlow]

mikecr,

I'm currently dipping my necks in powdered graphite to offset the squeaky clean inside necks I get after ultra sonic cleaning of the cases. I like everything about the sonic clean but those necks. I had planned to substitute the WS2 for the powdered graphite, thinking it may be a better coating.

I've tried this and although it does seem to have a lubricating effect, I was never able to get it to stick to the neck consistently to give consistent lubricating effect.

Did you try putting a large amount of WS2 in a plastic bullet box with small lead shot? Worked great for me back in the day.
Wanna get totally crazy? Mix straight WS2 with rubbing alcohol in a bottle cap and twist it in the necks with a bore mop. Dries in a few minutes and leaves a plethora of lubricant behind that charging the case will not remove. Shouldn't be a necessary step but I have tried everything

Never tried WS2, but might have to in the future.

 

[L-46]

I coat bullets with it similar to Greyfox. I also pre-foul my bore after cleaning with a dry burnishing of it.

can you tell us a bit more about pre treating the bore after cleaning?
Regards
L-46

 

[jo191145]

Ah yes I misread your post.

Franklin arsenal sells a cheap but useful dry lube station at places like Midway etc that works very well with powdered graphite or even Ws2

 

[mikecr]

can you tell us a bit more about pre treating the bore after cleaning?

I keep my bores in near-new or at least best condition. With this I clean them to white soon as I can after use.
Then I wash & dry out the bore with the best alcohol I can get my hands on(little residue, fast drying).
Then I pull out a dry bore mop I keep stored in it's tube with a bit of WS2. Run this back & forth in the bore a few times to burnish in as pre-fouling. Then one patch for any loose -one direction, out the muzzle.

I put away the bore dry, ready for service.
With this, I don't have to burn out petroleum residue, or pre-foul to hunt.
1st shot will be as good as any to follow.

I coat my bullets as well because I don't want my fouling to change enough to affect results out there.

 

[Johnboy]

Greyfox if the BB's didn't work for you how are you applying WS2 to your bullets. I went back and read all post but found nothing to how you are doing it. Even another guy said that he did just like you but didn't say.

 

[CPorter]

I use a q-tip or a bore mop to run boron nitride in the necks prior to seating the bullets. WS2 works the same way. It works better on clean necks than carbon coated ones. It seems to help the bullets seat better but length to ogive data doesn't show much.

I condition the bore with penetrating oil (Kroil) and born nitride mixed together. The oil helps carry the boron nitride into the pores by capillary action. Being a light oil it evaporates fairly quick.

I use BBs in a rotary tumbler, works fine for WS2, MoS2 and BN. Vibratory tumblers work ok but I get better results in the rotary.