Tuner that allows a suppressor also???

[C.E.Smith043]

Does anyone know if there is a tuner out there that also allows you to screw a suppressor on with it?

 

[memilanuk]

Kinetic Security Solutions LLC

Dedicated to providing quality products to the shooting community.

www.kineticsecuritysolutions.com

 

[60723]

Cortina and Tubbs say to add shims behind the suppressor and allow the suppressor to be the tuner.

 

[memilanuk]

Cortina and Tubbs say to add shims behind the suppressor and allow the suppressor to be the tuner.

Interesting idea... do you have a link to either recommendation?

 

[mauser284]

Sadly people are already doing this inspite of how opposite of intellegent.

It is already not the most intelligent thing to add to any rifle shooting standard loads a supressor or can. Yes I know larpers and PRS and NRL guys all like shooting standard loads with a can ont he end of everything they own.

I googled this topic and found many threads and info in seconds. Have you tried googling this and derivitives of "rifle tuner silencer combo"? Len's Long Range Loons had a thread right at the top of the list! I hate to point anyone to that site though but had you googled you could already have some idea's of what has already been done. One of the tuners discussed is a famious guy on this site that does F-Opena nd PRS and makes tuners!


Even though people have done this already combined a can and a tuner I doubt it is very productive. That is a lot of weight to hang at the end of a barrel. As the unsprung mass at the end of the moment arm increases the resultant flex increases a lot. As the mass increases at the end the ability to influence it with the tuner decreases the tuners mass would have to increase drasticly to influence the new load at the end of the moment arm but as the tuner get's heavier to tame the added mass you start to get into this loop that is mechanicaly not far off from a dog chasing it's own tail. You would need to make the barrel larger and stiffer to account for all the mass your hanging off the end. The larger you make the barrel the less affect the tuner has on the barrel etc.....

So as an example of stifness my MTU barrel at 29" is very stiff if I make it 22" long with out changing the diameter of the barrel and actual making it lighter it is not stiffer than it was at 29"! If I make that same barrel 36" long it will be less stiff than when it was 29" long.

The point behind the tuner in lay terms is to change where the barrel is in space when the bullet leaves the barrel. There is a bit more than that to it but lets not try to explain something this complex on a forum. A lot more is going on that just barrel whip.

You should try both one at a time and see how your rifle and your load responds. If you keep good notes and are very clever and put in the range time you might come to understand more than most.

To this day no record has been broken in terms of group size or aggragate with a tuner last I checked or with a can. Granted you can not use them in the highest level of precision shooting which is benchrest. If I am wrong I would love to be corrected especially if someone has science and engineering to refute what I am saying!

When it comes to tunng sometimes adding mass is the way to go it is the most primitive way to tune anything but it is also the easiest for the end user with almost no skill and no machinery to adjust the machine. Usually there are better ways to tun a thing from instruments to cars to rifles than just adding mass.

You know when you fire a rifle the barrel expands in all directions outward just like a if you took a thin rubber hose and pushed a golf ball through it along the path of the bullet. You get a wave rolling from the chamber to the muzzle just like a wave propagating thought water. Sound propagates faster as the densisity of the material increases for exable sound travels 7X faster through a brass trumpet than the air filling all of the tubing that makes up the trumpet. If you stike a bell and hit it with a laser topography that bell is moving in many directions. The barrel does not ocsilate just up and down. They have done this with trombone bells and it is amazing. It is not as dramatic as slow speed footage of an arrow but similar and less obvious.

I have a 1.65 strait cylinder and a 1.35 straight cylinder 338 barrels. I doubt that even the best EC tuner would impact shot placment on them in a staticaly significant way. They are too stiff. I doubt putting a can on either of them would do much either to point of inpact.

Likewise no amount of tuner will get my grease gun on target at 1000 yards but a can will surely lower it's sound signiture since 45ACP ball ammo is already subsonic. Understanding what things can do and how they do it can stop you from wasting your time and money. Both cans and tuners can do some really amazing things but they are not first line solutions for most situations!

There are tuner silencer combo's already in the world. Google has some on the first page!

 

[Fuj]

There is so much turbulence bouncing around inside of a can
before bullet exit, tuning would be erratic.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Sadly people are already doing this inspite of how opposite of intellegent.

It is already not the most intelligent thing to add to any rifle shooting standard loads a supressor or can. Yes I know larpers and PRS and NRL guys all like shooting standard loads with a can ont he end of everything they own.

I googled this topic and found many threads and info in seconds. Have you tried googling this and derivitives of "rifle tuner silencer combo"? Len's Long Range Loons had a thread right at the top of the list! I hate to point anyone to that site though but had you googled you could already have some idea's of what has already been done. One of the tuners discussed is a famious guy on this site that does F-Opena nd PRS and makes tuners!


Even though people have done this already combined a can and a tuner I doubt it is very productive. That is a lot of weight to hang at the end of a barrel. As the unsprung mass at the end of the moment arm increases the resultant flex increases a lot. As the mass increases at the end the ability to influence it with the tuner decreases the tuners mass would have to increase drasticly to influence the new load at the end of the moment arm but as the tuner get's heavier to tame the added mass you start to get into this loop that is mechanicaly not far off from a dog chasing it's own tail. You would need to make the barrel larger and stiffer to account for all the mass your hanging off the end. The larger you make the barrel the less affect the tuner has on the barrel etc.....

So as an example of stifness my MTU barrel at 29" is very stiff if I make it 22" long with out changing the diameter of the barrel and actual making it lighter it is not stiffer than it was at 29"! If I make that same barrel 36" long it will be less stiff than when it was 29" long.

The point behind the tuner in lay terms is to change where the barrel is in space when the bullet leaves the barrel. There is a bit more than that to it but lets not try to explain something this complex on a forum. A lot more is going on that just barrel whip.

You should try both one at a time and see how your rifle and your load responds. If you keep good notes and are very clever and put in the range time you might come to understand more than most.

To this day no record has been broken in terms of group size or aggragate with a tuner last I checked or with a can. Granted you can not use them in the highest level of precision shooting which is benchrest. If I am wrong I would love to be corrected especially if someone has science and engineering to refute what I am saying!

When it comes to tunng sometimes adding mass is the way to go it is the most primitive way to tune anything but it is also the easiest for the end user with almost no skill and no machinery to adjust the machine. Usually there are better ways to tun a thing from instruments to cars to rifles than just adding mass.

You know when you fire a rifle the barrel expands in all directions outward just like a if you took a thin rubber hose and pushed a golf ball through it along the path of the bullet. You get a wave rolling from the chamber to the muzzle just like a wave propagating thought water. Sound propagates faster as the densisity of the material increases for exable sound travels 7X faster through a brass trumpet than the air filling all of the tubing that makes up the trumpet. If you stike a bell and hit it with a laser topography that bell is moving in many directions. The barrel does not ocsilate just up and down. They have done this with trombone bells and it is amazing. It is not as dramatic as slow speed footage of an arrow but similar and less obvious.

I have a 1.65 strait cylinder and a 1.35 straight cylinder 338 barrels. I doubt that even the best EC tuner would impact shot placment on them in a staticaly significant way. They are too stiff. I doubt putting a can on either of them would do much either to point of inpact.

Likewise no amount of tuner will get my grease gun on target at 1000 yards but a can will surely lower it's sound signiture since 45ACP ball ammo is already subsonic. Understanding what things can do and how they do it can stop you from wasting your time and money. Both cans and tuners can do some really amazing things but they are not first line solutions for most situations!

There are tuner silencer combo's already in the world. Google has some on the first page!

It's perfectly fine for you to have this opinion...but it's wrong in most every aspect. I've tested tuners on just about every conceivable bbl and they work on all of those tested, from 16 inch 1.450 to hunting contours.

Also you stated that a longer bbl is less stiff than a shorter bbl of the same contour, which is true, overall. But you stated shortening a bbl doesnt make it stiffer...Incorrect and illogical. And yes of course a shorter bbl is stiffer than a longer bbl of the same contour. Length is far more critical to overall stiffness than is diameter. A fatter bbl is stiffer per inch but not overall, all else equal.
Not going to debate it further as you can google that. I just felt several points you mentioned needed to be set straight for the benefit of others, both now and in the future. It's not personal at all but there's plenty enough incorrect info out regarding tuners to last a lifetime already. More, simply doesn't help in any way.

I'll give you this to think about, though.
Frequency is simply a measure of nodal cycles in time. A stiffer bbl will vibrate at a higher frequency than a less stiff bbl...all else equal. So, the nodes and anti nodes are closer together than those of a low frequency.
So which takes more weight to affect tune? Hmmm