Tuner load workup method

[Cloudrepair]

I'm just looking for methods- ideas for working up loads with a tuner
Like workup load first then add tuner and adjust.

Workup load with tuner instaled then adjust.

Adjust tuner first on a load then workup load.


I'm finally getting a chance to play with my tunner and others so I'm looking for preferred method and whatever else you guys suggest
I will learn sooner or latter anyway what I like but it's good to listen to all your thoughts and thankyou
Oh and what your favorite tunner is or design if your willing

 

[tn6br]

I develop a load with tuner on the barrel but dont move it until i have gotten as far as i can with powder charge/ seating depth changes.

 

[savagedasher]

I'm just looking for methods- ideas for working up loads with a tuner
Like workup load first then add tuner and adjust.

Workup load with tuner instaled then adjust.

Adjust tuner first on a load then workup load.


I'm finally getting a chance to play with my tunner and others so I'm looking for preferred method and whatever else you guys suggest
I will learn sooner or latter anyway what I like but it's good to listen to all your thoughts and thankyou
Oh and what your favorite tunner is or design if your willing

My favorite is RAS but that is the kind I helped develop and design .
I wanted one that could be adjusted while shooting with Confidence.
Great idea But it don’t work .
I have confidence in ours Repeating
I used it the first time Saturday .
Manatee was haveing the last pratice match before going to I BS .
The gun and the load was tuned for hot weather and a tail wind and high water grains for air .
No excuse but I also had shot because of medical conditions
The load had 3 1/2 of vertical on the first three targets . During the pratice time I ask permissions To change my tuner . I knew the tune I had was low from the point of aim . The change I was makeing Was going to make the load have horizontal .
Guess was perfect 1.38” 4 shots
Were .650 and the other was directly right . Ended small for the shoot .
It was done with blind old
Man Savage Accutrigger RAS tuner
The LG was won with the same equipment
But that old man had a Mc Gowen barrel Larry .

 

[Cloudrepair]

I develop a load with tuner on the barrel but dont move it until i have gotten as far as i can with powder charge/ seating depth changes.

Thanks I was doing some ladder tests a week ago and then today I thought maybe I should have had the tuner on the barrel.
What is your reasoning for leaving the tuner on during load workup?

 

[Shynloco]

I develop a load with tuner on the barrel but dont move it until i have gotten as far as i can with powder charge/ seating depth changes.

+1. That's the method I would go with. A Tuner is there to "Fine Tune" your otherwise best developed load.

Alex

 

[tn6br]

The tuner i use (mike ezell’s pdt) also works as a dampner, the weight of the tuner hanging off the end of the barrel will generally show you wider tune windows while working up a load as well.

Thanks I was doing some ladder tests a week ago and then today I thought maybe I should have had the tuner on the barrel.
What is your reasoning for leaving the tuner on during load workup?

 

[Cloudrepair]

Thanks.
Sounds good what is the RAS tuner?

 

[skiutah02]

I have been shooting F-Class for two years with a tuner. My first rifle/barrel with a tuner was purchased used and had a Bukys tuner on it. I just tuned the rifle using my normal tuning method and it shot so well I never touched it. It did have the option of loosening a clamping screw and rotating the entire tuner then tightening the screw, but it did not have any markings on it to set as reference, so I was reluctant to play with it since the gun was shooting so well. I ordered a similar tuner (Dale Woolum, Jr's/PMA) that had the same set up, but had an additional brass ring that would allow fine tuning the tuner during the course of fire.
The instructions were simple and I followed them.

The one difference from prior posts is that it clearly says to tune the barrel without the tuner attached first. When I asked about this the response was related to seeing the barrel's potential first. Once a pet load is obtained, attach tuner, screw all the way down and clamp down. Shoot a three shot group (I did 2 shot groups because I'm cheap), then loosen tuner, turn 1/8 rotation, and clamp back down. Shoot another group. In short order, back-to-back-to-back groups with bullet holes touching will be achieved. Set to middle setting and tighten, never move again. Then use brass ring to fine tune load. I did this by going to 600 yds and shooting 4-shot groups for vertical. Took four shots, turned 2 clicks, shot 3 shots, etc for 16 shots with same aim point at 600 yds. Noted vertical on target, best vert (about 0.75 in) was at "2". The vertical of groups at "0" and "4" were good but a little larger. Moved an additional 2 clicks (to "8") then shot 4 shot groups and came back down by 2 back to "0". When this confirmed that "2" was the best. I stopped.

Took to practice match at 600 yds. Took 28 shots (24 Xs and 4 10s). Done



Used same settings for a 1000-yd match a few weeks later. Only 3rd clean in Fclass ever at that range (200-13x) and tied the State record. It was not calm, the 9 was my second sighter with 4.5 MOA of wind on. My 1st sighter I guessed 2.5 MOA and hit the 8 ring left.

 

[Steve Ladino]

I'm just looking for methods- ideas for working up loads with a tuner
Like workup load first then add tuner and adjust.

Workup load with tuner instaled then adjust.

Adjust tuner first on a load then workup load.


I'm finally getting a chance to play with my tunner and others so I'm looking for preferred method and whatever else you guys suggest
I will learn sooner or latter anyway what I like but it's good to listen to all your thoughts and thankyou
Oh and what your favorite tunner is or design if your willing

Tune your best bullet load combo, install tuner and get that one hole group by adjusting the tuner. I don't believe that one tuner is better than another.

 

[BenPerfected]

Tune your best bullet load combo, install tuner and get that one hole group by adjusting the tuner. I don't believe that one tuner is better than another.

Some tuners are easier to adjust, have better markings and can be locked in place.
Ben

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Tuners are very easy to use. The most common mistake is moving them too far. How far to move a tuner to get the desired, predictable and repeatable result, is dependent on several factors, like tuner weight, design, location relative to the muzzle and barrel stiffness.
That said, an eighth of a turn is a huge adjustment with any and every tuner design I've tested.
Good reference marks, small and methodical adjustment..and you're well on your way to wondering how we ever shot without them.
Random, large adjustment, and you'll soon give up or pull your hair out.

 

[savagedasher]

Tuners are very easy to use. The most common mistake is moving them too far. How far to move a tuner to get the desired, predictable and repeatable result, is dependent on several factors, like tuner weight, design, location relative to the muzzle and barrel stiffness.
That said, an eighth of a turn is a huge adjustment with any and every tuner design I've tested.
Good reference marks, small and methodical adjustment..and you're well on your way to wondering how we ever shot without them.
Random, large adjustment, and you'll soon give up or pull your hair out.

Well said
The movement I did was less then
.010 .
I. Don’t shoot matches . But my targets were saying 3 1/2 “of vertical .
The simple movement got rid of 2 3/4 “
My thoughts on loads make them the with low stable Es .
Let the tuner do its job .
If not don’t put one on . Larry

 

[Kings X]

Yea but sometimes progress is too slow. So I give it a big crank and start all over again. Mine are Butch Lambert style. I go .002" and shoot another two shots.
So far I have not seen a prescription for big bore like we have in smallbore to know where set the to "start" point.
I am new at this tuner stuff. Not sure if they help or hurt. If you get it wrong, the right setting today could be completely off tomorrow.

 

[BenPerfected]

Yea but sometimes progress is too slow. So I give it a big crank and start all over again. Mine are Butch Lambert style. I go .002" and shoot another two shots.
So far I have not seen a prescription for big bore like we have in smallbore to know where set the to "start" point.
I am new at this tuner stuff. Not sure if they help or hurt. If you get it wrong, the right setting today could be completely off tomorrow.

Just like changing your powder load because of weather changes. Wouldn’t it be easier if you could preload your match ammo and then just tweak your tuner thru out the day?
Ben

 

[memilanuk]

So far I have not seen a prescription for big bore like we have in smallbore to know where set the to "start" point.

In theory, these tuners do use something very like the Purdy Prescription. Seen a couple Aussies using them to good effect at the 2017 FCWC in Ottawa this summer. Very interesting. Might have to get me one

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Just like changing your powder load because of weather changes. Would be be easier if you could preload your match ammo and then just tweak your tuner thru out the day?
Ben

Yep..I've shot the same load in multiple...probably a dozen, barrels and rifles since 2007. That load and a tuner won

Say that to a Rimfire benchrest shooter and he'll gasp! Once they really find that tuner setting on the barrel.. they will never move it again! The real reason behind a tuner is to take accurate ammo and make it more consistent through the day.. in other words.. it gives it a wider tune in the changing conditions of the day..

Not all of them are still stuck in the mythical "stopped muzzle" black hole.

Please, please..explain to me why rf is different than cf. Yes, a mass at the end of the barrel widens the tune window. It does so regardless of the cartridge or where the primer is.
Yes, moving that mass can be used to time muzzle position and bullet exit optimally.
There is nothing magical about a rim fire that makes it defy physics. FWIW--Mike

 

[jsthntn247]

I had no luck trying to make a certain powder charge shoot in my centerfire by adjusting the tuner, I had no luck trying to make a certain seating depth with the best ES shoot in my CF. I did have luck turning the tuner and getting my load back in tune once the temp dropped 50 degrees. My observations so far with some what limited tuner experience.

 

[USMCDOC]

Yep..I've shot the same load in multiple...probably a dozen, barrels and rifles since 2007. That load and a tuner won

Not all of them are still stuck in the mythical "stopped muzzle" black hole.

Please, please..explain to me why rf is different than cf. Yes, a mass at the end of the barrel widens the tune window. It does so regardless of the cartridge or where the primer is.
Yes, moving that mass can be used to time muzzle position and bullet exit optimally.
There is nothing magical about a rim fire that makes it defy physics. FWIW--Mike

Understand Mike, just relaying what i have heard.. i am not sure that i totally subscribe to the notion of the "stopped muzzle".. that isn't where i was going.. but more so that a tuner i feel would make your pet load more consistent through the day in the changing conditions.. like getting zero'd up at 600 yards early in the morning on first relay then not shooting again till almost 1100.. and seeing that your first shots are 1.5 moa high.. where as a tuner should even that out and you wouldn't have so much of a divergence in zero shifts through the day..

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I had no luck trying to make a certain powder charge shoot in my centerfire by adjusting the tuner, I had no luck trying to make a certain seating depth with the best ES shoot in my CF. I did have luck turning the tuner and getting my load back in tune once the temp dropped 50 degrees. My observations so far with some what limited tuner experience.

How hot is that load? Sounds like groups blowing up. You can't tune that out with a tuner, if that's what it is.

 

[savagedasher]

Understand Mike, just relaying what i have heard.. i am not sure that i totally subscribe to the notion of the "stopped muzzle".. that isn't where i was going.. but more so that a tuner i feel would make your pet load more consistent through the day in the changing conditions.. like getting zero'd up at 600 yards early in the morning on first relay then not shooting again till almost 1100.. and seeing that your first shots are 1.5 moa high.. where as a tuner should even that out and you wouldn't have so much of a divergence in zero shifts through the day..

Zero and tune is two process.
When you tunes load using load or tuner . The point of bullet impact can be in a different area on target .
If the impact area is in a different location you then move your point of aim .
If the tune of the gun changes You have two choices .
Short range they change the load .
Most in long range don’t have that choice . With a tuner it can be done while shooting .
Last week I did it .
My target had 3 1/2 “ of vertical on 3 targets . I ask permission to change the tuner .
The target after the change Was 1.38” My point of impact raise 2”
I got small for the shoot and lost score
By 1 to tie and two to win .
I will never shoot without a tuner.
The next time I will know when I make change in the tune I will also have to correct the point of aim . The 5 9 1 1/2 “ lower would of been 5 x .
My choice is a tuner
You have your own choice .
Have fun shooting Larry