trueing an action

[tactical squirell]

hi everyone.
i am reading on that board for a while now, since i'm thinking about custom builds, i need a little more info.
yes i have all the tools i need, i know what i am doing on the lathe, i just cant find the info i want on the net.
i have a problem with clearances. where do i want to go on a remmy action ? i have been told 0.002'' smewhere else, i found a guy on the net who is going under the 0.0001'' runout wich is crazy tight.


what is the best clearance, and what is an acceptable runout ? ? ?
and if i am sleeving a remmy bolt, what is the best clearance ?

another thing was those recessed bolt face on remmy.
should i just get rid of it or maybe there could be a solution if i cut it using a endmill. whats the best bet with it ? is there a blueprint somewhere to give me an idea of the assembly with the barrel ?



thanks

a+
ben

 

[Preacher]

Clearances have a lot to do with the application that is used the most...
A well kept BR rifle can do with a lot less clearance than a hunting rifle will need.

 

[tunered]

Must be top secret. ed

 

[LHSmith]

quote
"I have a problem with clearances. where do i want to go on a remmy action ? i have been told 0.002'' smewhere else, i found a guy on the net who is going under the 0.0001'' runout wich is crazy tight." (quote)


It's more than crazy tight....it's crazy talk.
A person well versed in machine shop practice would know outright BS (> 0.0001). It takes more than a lathe, there are mandrels and fixtures to build to do it properly. There are plenty videos and books that can answer some of your questions. If you have questions about SPECIFIC parts and their tolerances, you should be able to get answers here or on the several machining web sites.
That recessed bolt face is what keeps your body parts intact when a primer or the case fails.

 

[tactical squirell]

and, do you have some nice books where i could get all the info i want ?
i have a couple one but they are mostly talking about blueing and repairing, not much about accurizing.

 

[LHSmith]

Some sources on accurizing 700's some are books ,some are dvd's)

Precision Rifle Bbl. Fitting .....by John Hinnant
Rifle Accuracy Facts.....by Harold Vaughn
Accurizing the Factory Rifle.....M.L. McPherson
Building the Tactical or Varmint Rifle.....D. Holland
Truing Your Action.......S. Acker

Best idea is to find a local gunsmith who might be willing to let you observe the process.

Unless you're planning to do multiple builds and have a real need to do the work yourself, it is much cheaper to simply buy a Custom action like a Stiller Predator, Borden Rimrock, or Hart. Those fixtures and mandrels don't come cheap and the resale on a trued 700 is about the same as take-off action......nobody trusts the actual amount of truing that was done, because the word "truing" means different things to different people.

 

[tactical squirell]

sweet thanks. a lot.
2 of them sounds very interesting.
rifle accuracy facts
truing your action

wont find a local gunsmith to read that since i want my own collection. i got a lot of vintage stuff, also if someone have some books for sale. . . i'm interested.

 

[RonAKA]

"Rifle Accuracy Facts.....by Harold Vaughn"

I've read this book, and while it is excellent, I don't recall it gives any specifics on action clearances. Vaughn spends quite a bit of time justifying his theory that one of the most significant causes of rifle inaccuracy is a loose barrel fit to the action, and the barrel actually rotates from shot to shot.

 

[butchlambert]

Guys remember .0001 runout is not the bolt clearence.
Go to Mike Bryant's website and you can see pics of it being done and the fixtures he uses.
Butch

 

[asa]

Get the book by John Hinnant give lots of info specific to rem 700 give details and diamensions for building lots of tooling

 

[Bnhpr]

Don't waste your time worrying about rem action tolerances. It's a red herring.

 

[tactical squirell]

so far, too many theories on that trueing thing.
i start creating my own theory, and its so simple:

the diff. between a custom remmy or a nice custom is 500-1000$ depend of the action. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .if i include the price of the reamer/chuck and i dont count the time.

it looked like a very interesting project, but it doesnt look worth the price in i take in consideration that i pay 500$ for a serial number.
it need a trigger
stock
barrel

the diff. between that remmy at 500$ and a nice custom action at the end is beween 500-1000$. custom actions already have everything, i dont spend time doing it, i cant do any mistake since its already done, no need to buy aa trigger, no need for tools. . . . . . . . . .
all i'll need is to install a barrel and buy a reamer. . . . . . . .

project aborted, will wait for founds and get that nice custom action.

for now i have some nice old style projects on the table, it should keep me busy for a while.

 

[Hal]

Gre-Tan

Has a very good DVD that shows how true an action, anong others.

Hal

 

[BoydAllen]

What were you planning on using this custom build for, and what caliber were you going to use?

 

[butchlambert]

You cannot bring a Remington receiver to a top customs tolerance and with the customs features for the same money.
Butch

 

[tactical squirell]

yeah, and for 1400$ to get a bat action. . . . . . . .

now, i'am up to get that remmy, bot it will be a beater rifle, just to shoot for cheap. get maximum trigger time next summer, then if i feel good enouggh, maybe a bat or a surgeon.

thinking about making a tube gun from that remmy, projects.

i am looking right now for a cheap(just not too expensive) good and accurate reamer chucck, mt2 morse. .. . . .(i know mt2 sucks but thats what i have)
dont know wich one to buy.

was thinking about buying just the mt2 collet to fit the reamers i'll buy and tighten them. . . . . .i think it should work.

 

[DCRYDER]

You need a floating reamer holder. I think almost everybody uses one.

 

[shortgrass]

Or a "pusher". The OP states "he knows what he's doing with a lathe". He'll figure it out!

 

[Rustystud]

Butch you are correct:

There are a dozen or more custom clone actions available for less than $900.

Nat Lambeth

 

[tactical squirell]

actually, 1200 for a barnard. not that bad.
prefer the bat at 1600
and, if i am to get a bat, why not the surgeon at 1800 to have that damn 338 lapua mag and enjoy shooting a good rifle.

plan was: buy a remmy, accurize it and have that perfect caliber.
didnt found the caliber yet, price of the tools push me to buy a surgeon and dont even waste any time on the remmy.

plan now is:
buy a remmy cal.223, get maximum trigger time
swap barrel on the savage for a 260 ai wich is still cheap to shoot, and capable to hit paper at 1km
rebarrel my m14 to have my 308win(7.62 nato actually) 500M shooter

the big custom rig will have to wait.


found a nice plan to maake my own reamer holder, and i'll try to make it fit on a mt2 directly, lets throw the drill chuck in the garbage.
one thing actually, is that I DONT LIKE THE IDEA.
to be honest, i was thinking about centering my tailstock with an electronic edge finder(hole finder actually), and just chuck the reamer as stiff as i could. everybody seems to chuck with floating stuff, but it seems to me that a lself-centering reameer will never self center perfectly straight in the hole and i'll get that little .001'' that will make me sad about my rifle. am i psycho on that one ? ?

so far, theres 2 4 jaw chuck on that lathe so i can center both sides of that barrel to get the perfect concentricity. i was gonna buy that mitutoyo electronic fancy dial indicator to make sure i have the most sensitive setup.
i even found grounded hss rod(yeah it finally exist) on wich i can just put 2 bushing to fit the barrel and having a full lengh rod to put the dials when centering.
and i'll put a self centering reamer on it. . . . . . . .maybe i'm psycho.