TrickLoad and my 6mm Phoenix

[txnintn]

What a morning, I know my case weight, my water capacity but quick load trips me up. Out of 7 test loads 2 blown primers or the dreaded black ring around the primer.

The first 55 grain Blitzking clocked 4601, 200 fps higher then TrickLoad predicted. Yes, the bolt was a little sticky and had a nice black ring around the Federal Match Primer. But I had to chuckle at the possibilities of a 55 grain BlitzKing smacking a crow at 4500 fps and the watching the feathers fly.

Undaunted, I loaded a 105 Berger Hybrid Target and let her rip. 3541fps and a blown primer when the load should have been about 59K and 3424fps. Hmmm this maybe a long morning.

I popped in another 105 Hybrid sitting on top of 54 grains of H1000. 3347 fps is a nice start and I finished with 54.4 grains and a sharp primer @ 3401 fps. IMP 7977 was 3944 fps, MagPro was 3378 fps.

The 87 grain Berger VLD and 54 Grains of MPR ran 3764 down the 28" Schneider 5P Polygon barrel.

The last load to speed test was 70 gn Nosler Varmit with 53.2 grains of N550 and 4031 FPS.

I adjusted the Case weighting factor from .33 to .43 and brought the pressure up and matched the speed.
I will test with some other loads and go on the safe side. Even with the adjustment the 57 grains of Retumbo is still showing 63K. Maybe I crushed too many kernels and the load got hot.

Anyway the target results were interesting. 20 something shots, different powder and charges, and bullets, their all in a 2.15 group. Hmmm

Txnintn

 

[ebb]

Could you please tell us more about the 6mm Phoenix, What was the parent case? ect, ect? I sounds like fun!

 

[basshusker]

+1 on what ebb asked?

 

[1shot]

To the OP,
+1 to everything Donovan said. This isn't a drag race, it's all about accuracy at a safe level. That deer or varmint are all toast is you can stack up the bullets one on another, and place them where the belong regardless if it 2,500 or 4,500 fps. Donovan you may lend a hand as to what the rotational speed is going to be with the small bullets, I never worry about because I shoot them in the sweet spot (the accuracy node). Please be safe,
Lloyd

 

[scpaul]

Mr. Txnintn, I would have to agree with the majority. The numbers that you quote have EXTREME DANGER written all over them, not to mention the primer warnings and the stiff bolt. I don't mean to stick my nose in your business but if the numbers that you quote are anywhere near accurate, you may not have much of a nose soon. Back everything off and double check it all. Believe me, you wouldn't be the first to grenade a rifle action.

What is the parent case, specs, etc.of the 6mm Phoenix? Man, Be careful, Paul

 

[nastynatesfish]

I was running 3350-3500 with my 6mm06. Never tried a light bulletin was also running retumbo. 51.5gr

 

[txnintn]

Mr. Txnintn, I would have to agree with the majority. The numbers that you quote have EXTREME DANGER written all over them, not to mention the primer warnings and the stiff bolt. I don't mean to stick my nose in your business but if the numbers that you quote are anywhere near accurate, you may not have much of a nose soon. Back everything off and double check it all. Believe me, you wouldn't be the first to grenade a rifle action.

What is the parent case, specs, etc.of the 6mm Phoenix? Man, Be careful, Paul

All,
Thanks for the concern. All of test loads were .2 grain increments with 10 loads per powder/bullet group.. Some were spot on and some were way way off using TrickLoad. Trust me I would love to figure out why there seems to be no rhyme or reason to the suggestions or results. Any new combination to be tested will be very very conservative.

The parent case is a 6.5x55 Swed trimmed .035". The shoulder is bumped back to produce a .400" neck. After fire forming, the case has a 58.2 H2O capacity, in a short action.

 

[txnintn]

Sorry my phone won't edit too good. The shoulder is a 30 degree angle. Our range is planning to add a1500 and 1760 yard berm. This cartridge will reach a mile and stay supersonic.

 

[Changeling]

Well it's good to know that the 6.5 x 55 is a well designed case, you've definitely proved that! :

Would you mind telling us what brass make you are using.
I see from your cartridge design that your case is 58.2gr (as you said). The average standard case is 57.9gr h20, so I guess you have blown out the case somewhat also, is that correct? Like an AI version.
With that case capacity and those loads you are definitely at max levels in my opinion.
Please be careful.

 

[ShaneG.]

Don't sound too far from what I built running a 6br reamer in deep and neck ing down 6.5x55 brass. Same 30° shoulder but no setback or trim. I got the idea from Jim at Apache.

I'm running a 25.5" barrel 87 vmax with 50g of h4350 put me right at 3625. 105hpbt topped out about 3200 with 4831. I Loaded 60.5g of Surplus WC857 and went on up to 3320. Haven't got it back out in a while but need to do some more with it.

 

[txnintn]

My first loads were with Lapua. I just got in some 25 pieces Nosler for to run a "tight" neck clearance test. I have been running the normal .003 neck to chamber clearance, with the Norma I'm going to see if I can tighten it up some.

I do believe in trust but verify. Last weekend, I backed off the max and loaded up 3 groups using H1000 again working toward a max load. The max load I set to 54.4 grains for this test, based on the previous numbers. I clean my barrel after shooting the first two groups which kept getting tighter as the speed increased. The first round of the third group made a strange whomp sound and only registered 3341 fps on the chronograph. The following 4 were 3372, 3384, 3372, and 3372. The group size was .670". The 54.4 is right on the edge of max. The first load varied from 3308 to 3325 fps, and the second varied from 3341 to 3358 fps. Not bad for the first rodeo.

The IMR 7977 had a much large spread from 3333 to 3392 fps. It's going back on the shelf.

I ran a second Retumbo test and max appears to be 55 grains @ 3456 fps.

I plan more testing for Retumbo this weekend at 54.4, 54.6, 54.8 and 55 with a .010 jump and a jam accuracy test with the H1000. Stay tuned.

Txnintn

 

[txnintn]

Don't sound too far from what I built running a 6br reamer in deep and neck ing down 6.5x55 brass. Same 30° shoulder but no setback or trim. I got the idea from Jim at Apache.

I'm running a 25.5" barrel 87 vmax with 50g of h4350 put me right at 3625. 105hpbt topped out about 3200 with 4831. I Loaded 60.5g of Surplus WC857 and went on up to 3320. Haven't got it back out in a while but need to do some more with it.

Twins almost!
Are you running in a long action or did you stuff it into a short action?

I haven't ran my H4350 with some 70 grain Noslers but the data is helpful.
I'm working loads with slow powders with 2 to 3% compression. I don't have any H4831 yet but its on the list. I do have several powders for some 87 grain Bergers. I plan to pick up some N570 for the 105 and if I can ever find some 115 Bergers.
Txnintn

 

[txnintn]

Well it's good to know that the 6.5 x 55 is a well designed case, you've definitely proved that! :

Would you mind telling us what brass make you are using.
I see from your cartridge design that your case is 58.2gr (as you said). The average standard case is 57.9gr h20, so I guess you have blown out the case somewhat also, is that correct? Like an AI version.
With that case capacity and those loads you are definitely at max levels in my opinion.
Please be careful.

The basic premise followed along the lines of a short fat efficient case and a long neck, a 'la 6mm Dasher.
So giving up capacity due to the long neck and shorter case, I blew out the body with a slight taper of .015".
So far I'm pleased with the early results even with the thething issues.
Txnintn

 

[PA Jeep]

Sounds a lot like the 6 Vais from the late 90's.

 

[ShaneG.]

I'm running mine in a savage target action.

 

[Titan700]

Following

 

[txnintn]

Sounds a lot like the 6 Vais from the late 90's.

From what I've read, the 6 & 7 mm Vais was a necked up or down 6.5x55 AI.

 

[PA Jeep]

The Vais is a 35 degree neck vs 40 on the AI chambers. I have a few 224 and 6 Vais based rifles both chambers are a lot of fun and shoot great. Enjoy

 

[txnintn]

It was an ugly day for testing loads, overcast, drizzling off and on, blustery, with wind out of the south at 8 mph with 10 to 15 mph gusts. Shooting into the wind, it was hard to say which way it was going to swirl around the target berm and push bullets around. My first rounds, I tested some 70 grain Nosler Varmints, sitting on top of 53.4 grains of Norma 204. The first four shots, 3 in one hole with the four just a little to the left and low for a .350” group. The fifth round got push by a gust opening the group up to a .940” The 5 shot load averaged 3970 FPS from 3955 to 3982 FPS.

The best Retumbo group measured a 1” group with 3 in one hole measuring .200” and flanked left and right by wind driven singles.

The jam test was a bust.

The max load test on VV N570 was awesome.
55 grains 3463 FPS
55.2 grains 3494 FPS
55.4 grains 3503 FPS
55.6 grains 3531 FPS Too hot!

It does look very promising.

 

[txnintn]

Nosler 70 grain