Top end scopes, wich one?

[JRS]

I do not believe S&B makes its own glass; they probably buy it from Schott AG, Jenaer Glass or other places. Riflescope makers seem to be secretive about the provenance of their glass and it probably varies over time. Optical glass makers such as Hikari (Nikon,) Schott, Jenaer, Hoya, Ohara, Pilkington, CDGM, Corning, POTL, Docter, etc probably sell their wares to anyone who wants to buy.

The world has evolved and we would be surprised to find out who sells what to whom. Shocked even.

When it comes to riflescope, a lot of the cost is in the actual assembly of the device, where tolerances are extremely tight and the skill level required to assemble these scopes is very high.

BTW, Ferrari is Italian, not German, so let's not mix our metaphors too much. Also, do not forget that you pay a lot of money just for the brand name on scopes.

S&B produces their own glass and components via their optical works company in Hungary. Drop the GT-R engine in a Panamera (German made)

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

Do you have a name for that company? The only Hungarian glass company I know of is MOM, Buchmann Hungarian Optical Works (a subsidiary of the Belgian group Buchmann) and Hoya is an investor in that factory.

Incestuous, I tell you.

Edited to add: I believe Schott has plants in Hungary.

 

[Tesoro]

Got to love the scope snobs. If it's not German it's not a scope and it's garbage. Ignorance at its best. Lol Seems like trying to justify spending all that money and having to feel superior. Having experience with many brands I know that the "only glass is German glass" argument is completely false. But keep believing it if you need to to make yourself feel better.

Das is nicht wahr!

However speaking of garbage - the non german competitor scope manufacturers use scope bodies that are primarily made out of recycled materials. Only the german scope bodies and gears are made solely out of virgin steels and alloys specifically sourced from mines that have the highest grades of ores.

Also the german scopes dont use any plastics for the drive gears and bearings as is commonly done anymore to cut costs. The proprietary german titanium alloys used in all their moving parts will never wear out or create the repeatability issues that plague non german scopes after typically a few years of use.

And finally only german scopes coat all lenses with their industry benchmark coatings unlike the others that cut costs by just coating the front and rear lenses. Some of the well regarded competitors even omit an inner lens or substitute it with an optical plastic one to further cut manufacturing costs under the guise of making them 'lightweight'

This my friend is the difference between a rolex and a seiko.

Also this is why you will never see an oriental scope on a us forces sniper rifle or on an african guide's dangerous game rifle.

 

[JRS]

Do you have a name for that company? The only Hungarian glass company I know of is MOM, Buchmann Hungarian Optical Works (a subsidiary of the Belgian group Buchmann) and Hoya is an investor in that factory.

Incestuous, I tell you.

Edited to add: I believe Schott has plants in Hungary.

Yes. S&B Hungaria Optik GmbH. It was once owned by the Hungarian government, and was referred to as Hungarian Optical Works. Schott actually has facilities on 3 continents.

Edit: Schott has a facility right here in PA.

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

Yeah, that's MOM, I think that's the one that Hoya has invested in as I mentioned earlier. Yep, I knew Schott had facilities in the US. Their website is nice.

 

[JRS]

Yeah, that's MOM, I think that's the one that Hoya has invested in as I mentioned earlier. Yep, I knew Schott had facilities in the US. Their website is nice.

The number of optical companies located in Hungary is mind boggling. Hoya Lens Hungary ZRT is a privately held company specializing in optical instruments, eyeglass and contact lenses. Zeiss and Leitz also have facilities in Hungary, along with many others.

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

Yeah, it's like barrel makers in Wisconsin.

 

[Rob01]

Das is nicht wahr!

However speaking of garbage - the non german competitor scope manufacturers use scope bodies that are primarily made out of recycled materials. Only the german scope bodies and gears are made solely out of virgin steels and alloys specifically sourced from mines that have the highest grades of ores.

Also the german scopes dont use any plastics for the drive gears and bearings as is commonly done anymore to cut costs. The proprietary german titanium alloys used in all their moving parts will never wear out or create the repeatability issues that plague non german scopes after typically a few years of use.

And finally only german scopes coat all lenses with their industry benchmark coatings unlike the others that cut costs by just coating the front and rear lenses. Some of the well regarded competitors even omit an inner lens or substitute it with an optical plastic one to further cut manufacturing costs under the guise of making them 'lightweight'

This my friend is the difference between a rolex and a seiko.

Also this is why you will never see an oriental scope on a us forces sniper rifle or on an african guide's dangerous game rifle.

Oh you mean like all those Japanese made Nightforce scopes the military has used for years?

 

[JRS]

Oh you mean like all those Japanese made Nightforce scopes the military has used for years?

Add Leupold to that list of sniper scopes used by our military.

Das is nicht wahr!

However speaking of garbage - the non german competitor scope manufacturers use scope bodies that are primarily made out of recycled materials. Only the german scope bodies and gears are made solely out of virgin steels and alloys specifically sourced from mines that have the highest grades of ores.

Also the german scopes dont use any plastics for the drive gears and bearings as is commonly done anymore to cut costs. The proprietary german titanium alloys used in all their moving parts will never wear out or create the repeatability issues that plague non german scopes after typically a few years of use.

And finally only german scopes coat all lenses with their industry benchmark coatings unlike the others that cut costs by just coating the front and rear lenses. Some of the well regarded competitors even omit an inner lens or substitute it with an optical plastic one to further cut manufacturing costs under the guise of making them 'lightweight'

This my friend is the difference between a rolex and a seiko.

Also this is why you will never see an oriental scope on a us forces sniper rifle or on an african guide's dangerous game rifle.

Evidently, you haven't looked at the scopes used by the array of PH's in Africa, nor do you have a clue about the scopes used by our armed forces.

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

(snip)

And finally only german scopes coat all lenses with their industry benchmark coatings unlike the others that cut costs by just coating the front and rear lenses. Some of the well regarded competitors even omit an inner lens or substitute it with an optical plastic one to further cut manufacturing costs under the guise of making them 'lightweight'
(snip)

Wow.

Just.

Wow.

 

[JRS]

Wow.

Just.

Wow.

Too much peyote laced kraut

 

[Tesoro]

Add Leupold to that list of sniper scopes used by our military.

Evidently, you haven't looked at the scopes used by the array of PH's in Africa, nor do you have a clue about the scopes used by our armed forces.

I just wrote a load of b***it to yank a chain!

 

[rifleman700]

Hi Guys, Im sure this has been asked a 100 times but ill ask one more time if you don't mind.

Im in the market for a top "end scope" and currently looking at the following 4 scopes.
Im a LR steel banger and that's what this scope will be used for 85% off the time with the occasional LR hunt and PRS type competition we have over here, for general hunting I have rifles to fill the need. The rifle is a 6SLR and im currently using a Sightron S3 8-32x56 MOA2 on it, yes its a very nice scope with good turrets and nice glass that does everything I need but Its not one off the scopes im looking at now.

My "needs" is a scope that's mechanically as close to 100% as possible , tracks perfectly and if I turn X amount off MOA/MIL the cross moves that amount and very good glass but im sure any off these will do that.

I have never used a MIL/MIL or FFP scope but it seems that's the way to go with these scopes and Im kind off looking forward to learning something new.

The 4 scopes im looking at in the order im currently favoring them:

Schmidt and Bender pmii p4fine CW 5-25x56, FFP MIL/MIL
Vortex Razor HD ebr2c CCW 4.5-27x56, FFP MIL/MIL
Nightforce ATACR 5-25x56 MOAR-T MOA
Nightforce ATACR 5-25x56 MOAR F1 1/4 Digillum PTL, FFP MOA


Price wise I can get the PM11 and Razor for the same price, the F1 Atacr is a little more that those 2 and the 2nd FP Atacr is about 10% less than the other 3.

I have always wanted a PMii and I doubt we will ever see them around here again (don' ask) and ill be able to sell it any day for more than what I pay for it now (so I can think of it as a bit off an investment if anyone asks....)

Do I go with my inner boy and get the PMii or is there anything in the other 3 that should change my mind?

Thanks
Siebert

I guess that will teach you to ever start a thread about scopes. Hopefully you were able to get some kind of helpful information.

 

[JRS]

The OP has always wanted the S&B. I say go for it

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

There's nothing wrong with starting threads about scopes. It's just going through the chain yanking that is difficult.

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

The OP has always wanted the S&B. I say go for it

Absolutely and without hesitation.

 

[Tesoro]

Get the s&b ! you wont ever look at it later on and wish you had bought a better scope.

 

[Capt. Oblivious]

For what the OP is asking let me ask this question. Is the additional $1500 in cost of the S&B worth the small improvement in glass quality?

Rember for me the S&B and Razor is the same price, Atacr F1 roughly $450 more and the F2 Atacr $300 less.

 

[JRS]

Rember for me the S&B and Razor is the same price, Atacr F1 roughly $450 more and the F2 Atacr $300 less.

When you find something you have always wanted, can afford it and easily recover your money, buy it. You might not have that chance again. S&B produces world class scopes.

 

[Rob01]

Rember for me the S&B and Razor is the same price, Atacr F1 roughly $450 more and the F2 Atacr $300 less.

If you have always wanted an S&B then get it. They are very good scopes. If it has the features and reticle you like then go for it. You can always sell it. I know I have played that game a lot of times with many scopes as I just wanted to see what the fuss was about. Just don't think it will make you a better shooter than any of the other three. All those scopes are top of the line.