Too many fouling shots!

[shellshock]

I shoot a Savage 12F 6.5-.284 I worked up a load with 139 Senars that shoot one hole @ 100 and a best .399 @ 200 yards. I always shoot 3-5 fouling shots before I start a string. This rifle is capable of sub half moa at 200 yards but you won't see it until 15 - 20 rounds fired. I shoot 5 at a steel plate,the next five I go for group 3/4 to 1 inch. I take my time let the barrel cool slightly between shots and slowly around the 15 - 20 mark the group shrinks and will stay there the rest of the day.


My question is has anyone had a rifle that takes this long to settle down? I have been shooting for 30 years and never had to shoot that many with any other rifle I have ever owned.I shoot 5 shot stings to work up loads, how many good loads did I throw away? With the cost of Reloading today I try not to waste a shot.This has me scratching my head.

 

[memilanuk]

So... stop cleaning it down to bare metal!!!

If the tube is a little rough,some of the factory Savages are), it takes a few rounds for that roughness to get 'filled in'.

If it shoots good dirty,sounds like it), quit screwing it up by cleaning it.

 

[Jeffvn]

+1 stop cleaning the rifle so much.

I recently shot the 3rd F-Class match on my 7WSM without cleaning the rifle - I know it sounds horrifying, but hear me out. The last 20-shot relay that I shot tied the best score for any relay since it was last cleaned. Not bad for nearly 200 rounds between cleanings. After the match, I couldn't take it any longer and cleaned the rifle. Stuningly, there was no evidence of a carbon ring. That having been said, I'll run at least 20-30 rounds through it before I shoot the next match, as it has proven to me over the last year that it like a bit of dirt in the barrel.

JeffVN

 

[shellshock]

I must have laughed for five minutes! All the knowledge and experience on this site I was waiting for a technical answer and I'm over cleaning my rig!

OK,can I run a wet patch of Kroil followed by a dry patch? I don't think I can put the rifle away with at least doing that.

 

[treeman]

shellshock, theres a post on here,i think it was in the gun of the week, about a guy that shoots 1000yrd br, well his whole family does.the four of them shoot 2 guns he didn't have time to clean so the guns were shot dirty. one of the girls won that relay. now they shoot around 200 rounds before cleaning. go figure!______treeman

 

[mikecr]

You could clean everytime without a problem if you pre-foul the barrel before putting it away. I do it with a dry burnishing of tungsten powder on a bore mop. This, after cleaning followed by the best alcohol I can get, to take it to a clean dry bore.
I also coat bullets, but thats to reduce copper.

 

[2506]

I learned a long time ago not to ever clean the bore of my rifles until the groups start to open up. I really cleaned a 25-06 once removing all the copper and it took over 40 shots to get it to shoot right again. I have seen too many rifles ruined by too much improper cleaning or people shooting a barrel out with fouling shots trying to to get it to shoot good after really cleaning all the copper fouling out. Shooting 15 to 20 fouling shots just to get a 6.5-284 to shoot well will shoot out a barrel in no time. I have always gone by the theory, "If it ain't broke don't try to fix it"!

 

[memilanuk]

You can do whatever you want to it... I generally clean my long range guns every few hundred rounds whether they need it or not :thumb:

It's pretty dry around here, so I don't sweat it too much. Some folks live in much more humid,i.e. rust-friendly) environments, so they may approach the matter differently.

 

[jo191145]

You did'nt say which powder you use.
Perhaps working a load with a dirtier powder would help, R-22 comes to mind.

 

[Forum Boss]

You could clean everytime without a problem if you pre-foul the barrel before putting it away. I do it with a dry burnishing of tungsten powder on a bore mop. This, after cleaning followed by the best alcohol I can get, to take it to a clean dry bore.
I also coat bullets, but thats to reduce copper.

Re Tungsten--This is an unusual procedure. It may work great for MikeCr, however I don't think it will help much in your situation. Based on what you've said, I agree with the others to just shoot your gun dirty. David Tubb was known to run 20-30 rounds through his barrel after a thorough cleaning to "prep" it for a match.

I have personally seen a 6PPC barrel that shot in the low ones and zeros,in a tunnel) dirty yet would not hold half-moa after aggressive cleaning with bronze brushes and JB.

 

[shellshock]

jo191145 I'm using H4831sc, thanks for all the feedback.I am over cleaning it.I wanted to make sure I stayed ahead of that carbon ring,guess I'm staying just a little too far ahead!

I also just took the plunge and bought a Hawkeye borescope from Brownells, I'm pretty excited and can't wait to see what I've been guessing at all these years.I hope I get more answers with it than questions.

 

[crumpmd]

I am up to 475 rounds with nary a patch down the tube. The bolt is cleaned every time I put it away but I have nearly 900 rounds shot through it and have really cleaned it about 10 times. Mostly during break-in I shoot moly too. I would guess you can go many hundreds of rounds before cleaning the barrel.

 

[people]

I also never clean the tube unles accuracy goes down. My 223 I use for Pairie Dogs has almost 2,000 shots threw it since the last cleaning. It took a long time to polish the tube by shooting it but it is a real hummer now.

 

[m1k3]

I have a similar behaving Savage 10fp .308 stock barrel with BC tactical stock. I've learned to stop cleaning it. I noticed that when I would head to the range or to a family ranch, I shot horribly. I say horribly but it still would shoot less than 3-4 inches at 100yds. But every time, my last group was always the best. I then read the 6mmbr page on the 308 and saw that Brad Suave stopped cleaning his barrel and the accuracy improved. That prompted me to stop cleaning it. The very next time I went out, the first 5-shot group including the cold bore shot, was less than 1 inch. The groups just got better and better.
Now since that time, about 4 months ago, I have gone against my own gut feeling and cleaned it twice. Each time, it takes roughly 50 shots to get back to around .5 - .75 inch groups. While the rifle had 100+ rounds though it I worked up my pet load and that is what I shoot now. I can usually get it to less than .4 but after a cleaning, the same load shoots around 3 inches. I probably wasted 200-300 rounds early on while trying to work up a load with a clean gun.

Mike