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Tony Boyer's book

I received Tony Boyer's" Book of Rifle Accuracy" a few days ago and have been reading it since. It is full of great information and easy to read. One thing that I am surprised by, is there is no, 0, reference to annealing cases. Maybe he don't do it. Barlow
 
Donovan, He says expects his cases to last 20 firings + -. "If the brass does not feel right or starts to click when you open the bolt, throw it out". Barlow
 
A lot of short range BR shooters never anneal; they just shoot the brass they bought (and possibly formed themselves) at the start of the season until the brass is obviously no good or the season ends. They buy a lot of brass at the start.....
 
It's a pretty interesting read. He says he doesn't weigh or sort brass, but would if he shot 1K. But the way, the freight on the book was near $20.00, unbelievable! Barlow
 
I have the privilege of knowing several short range benchrest world record holders, and none of them, or any other short range competitor that I am aware of anneals cases. They would if it improved their results. One issue is that shooting the short bullets that are the norm, with the most popular powder, 133, one needs a decent amount of neck tension for best results, and with necks running between .0086 and .008 for the typical .262 chamber, annealing would be going the wrong way. Because almost no one preloads for these matches, 20 cases or fewer may be all that are required. Given this, and their preference for fresh brass (Some, not all feel this way.) it is not that uncommon for competitors to simply throw cases away after a weekend of shooting, and start the next match with a fresh lot.
 
Barlow said:
I received Tony Boyer's" Book of Rifle Accuracy" a few days ago and have been reading it since. It is full of great information and easy to read. One thing that I am surprised by, is there is no, 0, reference to annealing cases. Maybe he don't do it. Barlow

Interesting observation which is very similar to a companion book (Extreme Rifle Accuracy) written by Mike Ratigan, another renown expert and Olympic Winner shooter. Mike also makes no reference in his book to "annealing", but covers very much the same detailed materials Tony Boyer cover in his book. So perhaps our own Boyd Allen answers the initial question posed, neither of these recognized expert shots even anneals and rather tosses their brass after a competition and starts anew each time. Sponsorship sure must be nice.
 
Who did you buy the book from? I don't remember what I paid but I'm sure it was under $10. I bought mine from Midwest or Midway.
 
There must be some relationship to neck thickness and the amount of tension you can get? A ridiculous example would be a 5 thou neck, tight neck chamber, 0.002" tension. A 12 thou neck thickness 0.002" tension would be different. With tight necks and custom dies made for their rifle the BR shooters may not be working the neck very much? The tension is determined by the starting hardness, how much the neck expands to fill the chamber when it goes off, the dimension it returns to, how much you size it down with the bushing and how much inserting the bullet expands the neck. It isn't simply how many thou the case expands by inserting the bullet. Sounds like annealing reduces the variables.
 
In short range benchrest, what matters, and how much is different than at longer distances. For 1,000 yards annealing is common. On these forums, there is a tendency to try to figure out things by logic, rather than testing to see what works best. Believe me, the top shooters have tried just about everything. I have done a lot of experiments myself, with my 6PPC. There is no substitute for doing your own testing. Trying to come to some sort of final conclusion that is valid on the target, without testing, is largely a waste of time.
 
BoydAllen said:
In short range benchrest, what matters, and how much is different than at longer distances. For 1,000 yards annealing is common. On these forums, there is a tendency to try to figure out things by logic, rather than testing to see what works best. Believe me, the top shooters have tried just about everything. I have done a lot of experiments myself, with my 6PPC. There is no substitute for doing your own testing. Trying to come to some sort of final conclusion that is valid on the target, without testing, is largely a waste of time.
[br]
+1 A Chief Engineer, for whom I worked at the time, told me, "Steve, we always want to know why. Sometimes, we have to settle for works."
 
I agree. Almost everything we know about shooting comes from coming up with an idea and trying it on a target. Almost zero science.
 
Shynloco said:
Barlow said:
I received Tony Boyer's" Book of Rifle Accuracy" a few days ago and have been reading it since. It is full of great information and easy to read. One thing that I am surprised by, is there is no, 0, reference to annealing cases. Maybe he don't do it. Barlow

Interesting observation which is very similar to a companion book (Extreme Rifle Accuracy) written by Mike Ratigan, another renown expert and Olympic Winner shooter. Mike also makes no reference in his book to "annealing", but covers very much the same detailed materials Tony Boyer cover in his book. So perhaps our own Boyd Allen answers the initial question posed, neither of these recognized expert shots even anneals and rather tosses their brass after a competition and starts anew each time. Sponsorship sure must be nice.

Benchrest isn’t an Olympic sport. The World Championships take place every other year in different countries, it’s basically the Olympics of the short range Benchrest world, so I get what you’re saying there. Mike won the 2gun at the World Championships in 1999 and 2007 and has placed well in other World Championships too.

I’d be surprised if any of the top guys in BR get much of anything for free. I know of one of the top guys in the country paid for and took delivery of 150 Bartlein barrels this last year. Lots of competitors will buy 10+ barrels a year. They’ll chamber and shoot them with their preferred bullet powder combo keeping the best of the crop and sell the rest. I do know of a few guys that qualified for the Worlds were given a few barrels from various manufacturers for use in the World Shoot, but outside of that, they pay for everything.

As far as chunking the brass goes, most guys I’ve seen only make up 20-25 pieces of brass for a particular barrel. Tony says he usually fires those 20 pieces a total of 400 times before he retires it.The brass cost about 90 cents a piece. Since the cost of travelling to and staying in a hotel for a week for a major or national championship match generally costs $1k+, it isn’t worth the risk trying to save 20 or 25 dollars worth of tired brass.

When it comes to BR or any other competitive shooting sport, you must first have a gun and setup that is capable of winning.
 
ntexaslongshot said:
Shynloco said:
Barlow said:
I received Tony Boyer's" Book of Rifle Accuracy" a few days ago and have been reading it since. It is full of great information and easy to read. One thing that I am surprised by, is there is no, 0, reference to annealing cases. Maybe he don't do it. Barlow

Interesting observation which is very similar to a companion book (Extreme Rifle Accuracy) written by Mike Ratigan, another renown expert and Olympic Winner shooter. Mike also makes no reference in his book to "annealing", but covers very much the same detailed materials Tony Boyer cover in his book. So perhaps our own Boyd Allen answers the initial question posed, neither of these recognized expert shots even anneals and rather tosses their brass after a competition and starts anew each time. Sponsorship sure must be nice.

Benchrest isn’t an Olympic sport. The World Championships take place every other year in different countries, it’s basically the Olympics of the short range Benchrest world, so I get what you’re saying there. Mike won the 2gun at the World Championships in 1999 and has placed well in other World Championships too.

Ok..my bad! I shouldn't have used the term "Olympic" because Tony and Mike have competed against the world's best Benchrest shooters at the "World Benchrest Championships" and received equivalent (Gold, Silver or Bronze) medals to commemorate their accomplishments. I personally also give them credit (they and others are my heros) for their excellence and superior capabilities. But I also believe any of those competitors would outshoot those at the "Olympic" level if they entertained such an event. Guess being "proper" still matters.

Alex
 
Shynloco said:
Ok..my bad! I shouldn't have used the term "Olympic" because Tony and Mike have competed against the world's best Benchrest shooters at the "World Benchrest Championships." I personally also give them credit (they are others are my heros) for their excellence and superior capabilities whatever term you wish to call it. But I also believe any of those competitors would probably outshoot those at the "Olympic" level if they entertained such an event.

Alex
[br]
Alex, [br]
Olympic shooting events are position shooting where the rifle, pistol or shotgun is supported by the shooter. Benchrest shooters would not have a ghost of a chance against these highly conditioned athletes. That does not demean benchrest shooting or any other discipline, just means they are different.
 
Shynloco said:
ntexaslongshot said:
Shynloco said:
Barlow said:
I received Tony Boyer's" Book of Rifle Accuracy" a few days ago and have been reading it since. It is full of great information and easy to read. One thing that I am surprised by, is there is no, 0, reference to annealing cases. Maybe he don't do it. Barlow

Interesting observation which is very similar to a companion book (Extreme Rifle Accuracy) written by Mike Ratigan, another renown expert and Olympic Winner shooter. Mike also makes no reference in his book to "annealing", but covers very much the same detailed materials Tony Boyer cover in his book. So perhaps our own Boyd Allen answers the initial question posed, neither of these recognized expert shots even anneals and rather tosses their brass after a competition and starts anew each time. Sponsorship sure must be nice.

Benchrest isn’t an Olympic sport. The World Championships take place every other year in different countries, it’s basically the Olympics of the short range Benchrest world, so I get what you’re saying there. Mike won the 2gun at the World Championships in 1999 and has placed well in other World Championships too.

But I also believe any of those competitors would outshoot those at the "Olympic" level if they entertained such an event. Guess being "proper" still matters.

Alex

Mr Balir,
Did you read what I posted? I know the difference between the events and that's my opinion. READ WHAT I WROTE! Enough already!
 

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