To use the Expander ball or not.........that is the question

[BoydAllen]

One more point, if you have a concentricity gauge and the parts and pieces to do the experiments, why not just try all of the variations and measure the results. It is almost like folks have lost faith in their own inventiveness and abilities. Back in the day, before there was an internet, that was all we had, and it is still my preferred method...by far. When I said that using a properly selected bushing in conjunction with an expander ball does not hurt concentricity, it was not from a set of written instructions, some factory tech on the phone or the internet, a looong time ago i did the experiment. I recommend that you do the same, and believe your gauges and targets.

 

[M-61]

Isn't this a 7 year old post?

 

[BoydAllen]

Evidently not...you and I just posted on it.

 

[B_Thomas]

One more point, if you have a concentricity gauge and the parts and pieces to do the experiments, why not just try all of the variations and measure the results. It is almost like folks have lost faith in their own inventiveness and abilities. Back in the day, before there was an internet, that was all we had, and it is still my preferred method...by far. When I said that using a properly selected bushing in conjunction with an expander ball does not hurt concentricity, it was not from a set of written instructions, some factory tech on the phone or the internet, a looong time ago i did the experiment. I recommend that you do the same, and believe your gauges and targets.

John Whidden suggested I try the expander buttons with the bushings in his dies. I adjusted the expander button high up in the die. I can feel the case enter the bushing and then bump shoulder. Then as I retract the case a small amount I feel the expander pull back through the neck. At this point the main body of the case is still over half way up in the die being supported. I select a bushing that reduces the diameter a few thousands below final neck size. This keeps from over working the neck and putting stress and work hardening into the material. In addition to the expander position, I was able to reduce run-out slightly more by micro polishing the expander button (I could feel the fine machine grooves in a new die), Chamfering the inside of the neck, a quick buff of the case neck ID on a nylon brush with steel wool wrapped around it. Then Lubed inside and out. This before sizing. The results is very smooth and very controlled .001" to .002" bump of the shoulder and almost no movement in the dial on the run out gage.

I gained a lot more feel feedback by going to a short handle on my Rock Crusher Press. I got mine from 21st Century Shooting.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

So i guess to use expander balls you need an assortment of them and only one bushing- ive never seen a set of expanders but ive seen sets of bushings. You could have 8 different bushing sizes and get the same neck tension every time not changing anything just practicing

 

[B_Thomas]

So i guess to use expander balls you need an assortment of them and only one bushing- ive never seen a set of expanders but ive seen sets of bushings. You could have 8 different bushing sizes and get the same neck tension every time not changing anything just practicing

http://www.whiddengunworks.com/product/expander-ball-kits-and-sets/

 

[243winxb]

Isn't this a 7 year old post?

Yes it is.

 

[Hengehold]

Using the Expander Ball in conjunction with a Bushing Die is a dichotomy.

It completely defeats the purpose of a bushing which is to squeeze down the case neck to impart a predetermined amount of tension on the bullet. To run an expander ball back up through the neck undoes what you've just tried to accomplish.

I normally use custom made bushing dies from Harrell's: http://harrellsprec.com/index.php?crn=207&rn=384&action=show_detail that do not come with a ball attached. With the Redding Type S, the first thing that I do is to detach and then discard the ball, in the trash can, never to be seen or heard from again.

[/QUOTE]

Using the Expander Ball in conjunction with a Bushing Die is a dichotomy.

It completely defeats the purpose of a bushing which is to squeeze down the case neck to impart a predetermined amount of tension on the bullet. To run an expander ball back up through the neck undoes what you've just tried to accomplish.

I normally use custom made bushing dies from Harrell's: http://harrellsprec.com/index.php?crn=207&rn=384&action=show_detail that do not come with a ball attached. With the Redding Type S, the first thing that I do is to detach and then discard the ball, in the trash can, never to be seen or heard from again.

I agree with your statements and took the expander out of my die last season. I found that neck tension was more erratic without the expander ball so I ended up putting it back in. I was loading unturned brass so may see different results with turned necks.

 

[Fotheringill]

Just for the hell of it and at the cost of a few six packs, try the Lee Collet neck die. It has a mandrel and squeezes in on the collet to fit the mandrel. There is no button per se. For @25 you might be very pleasantly surprised at the lack of runout experienced.