To those naysayers that think raindrops cant affect a bullet-

[Uthink Uknow]

Saw it in the morning news: “This just into our newsroom, Bart’s Bullets are now coated with Rain-X”.

 

[Knotwild]

I would think that a bullet from something in the 2000+ fps range would be pushing a substantial pressure wave and a rain drop would not be able to penetrate it. Maybe direct it or alter it, but not actually hit the bullet.

 

[rammac]

First of all the link was to an article, it doesn't provide us with the actual test data and I've found that what a person writes about a test may not be what the test actually said - the observer has a tendency to influence the results.

Secondly, while the bullet might be deflected to some degree by a rain drop, that deflection will not carry through the entire trajectory of the bullet. Bullets are spin stabilized around the center of mass. When a force pushes the bullet from the side it causes a epicyclic rotation (wobbles like a top). Unless that force pushes the bullet completely sideways it's spin will tend to dampen and eliminate that epicyclic rotation. Over enough distance the bullet will stabilize and fly in a normal trajectory. Yes, it's possible that the bullet would be pushed off of it's original trajectory and impact away from the intended point of impact but I don't believe that the amount of yaw error would continue very far. I might be wrong and maybe the study addressed the stabilization of the bullet but without seeing the actual report we wont ever know.

 

[Joe Salt]

Joe,

All I can say you’re one lucky shooter!

Bart

Bart I'm not talking torrential down pour with wind I think then your in trouble. I say its raining and you can still see the target at a 1000. I'm talking your going to get wet standing there. But the conditions are still descent. I'm telling you I've had some great targets, always looking for a good drizzly day.

Joe Salt

 

[Texas10]

Check this out. Guns and ammo tv did a show on this and i found the writeup. Those who have shot serious competition in the rain already knows about poi shift after hitting a raindrop- sometimes you miss the whole target and get a penalty, or in some disciplines a dairy queen sundae.

https://www.gunsandammo.com/editorial/effects-rain-bullet-trajectory/372027

Fascinating photography, Dusty. Great article, and one can actually see how a big enough (Texas style) raindrop impacting the top of the bullet will cause it to yaw. In a rotating object, a force applied will have a resultant effect 90 degrees in the direction of rotation. So a raindrop impact on the top of the bullet will cause a yaw to the left. Would be interesting to see if the bullet corkscrews all the way to the target, and how big that corkscrew is.

So much of day to day physics that can be illuminated by new photographic techniques. My 1949 loading manual has a pic of bullet with shock wave in flight. Called Spark-O-Graph back then. Everything new is old.

I alway go to the range on rainy days. I get the best groups, but then I don't shoot when it's coming down that hard.

 

[expiper]

another thing we need to think about is a rain drop getting in the muzzle ,,,,that seems to cause more eratic shots in my limited experience,,,Roger

 

[1911nut]

I’ve shot @100 yds in the rain a few times from an enclosed rifle house and was surprised my groups were same as dry conditions. These are guns that shoot in the 1’s and 2’s. I figured the bullet had to hit a lot of rain drops before hitting the target and would have guessed the groups shoulda opened up.

 

[Raythemanroe]

Maybe the conditions just suck so bad at Williamsport but when it's rained groups got better..

Ray

 

[BartsBullets]

Joe,

All I can say you’re one lucky shooter!

Bart

Bart I'm not talking torrential down pour with wind I think then your in trouble. I say its raining and you can still see the target at a 1000. I'm talking your going to get wet standing there. But the conditions are still descent. I'm telling you I've had some great targets, always looking for a good drizzly day.

Joe Salt

Joe,

Light drizzly days are great for groups. But there are rain shots. If you haven had one you’ve been fortunate.

Here’s another “type” of rain shot. I was videotaping a buddy at the Super Shoot. It had pretty much stopped raining. Not a flag was moving, it was dead Calm. He had 4 shots down range into nothing. He turned the 5th shot loose and it took off like a dodo bird! Neither of us could see anything that would cause it. However, when watching the tape in slow motion, just as the 5th shot was touched off , you could see a blob of water fall from the roof and Then a small explosion about two foot in front of the muzzle where the bullet hit it.

Rain can significantly deflect a bullet. Not always but sometimes.

Bart

 

[Ned Ludd]

First of all the link was to an article, it doesn't provide us with the actual test data and I've found that what a person writes about a test may not be what the test actually said - the observer has a tendency to influence the results.

Secondly, while the bullet might be deflected to some degree by a rain drop, that deflection will not carry through the entire trajectory of the bullet. Bullets are spin stabilized around the center of mass. When a force pushes the bullet from the side it causes a epicyclic rotation (wobbles like a top). Unless that force pushes the bullet completely sideways it's spin will tend to dampen and eliminate that epicyclic rotation. Over enough distance the bullet will stabilize and fly in a normal trajectory. Yes, it's possible that the bullet would be pushed off of it's original trajectory and impact away from the intended point of impact but I don't believe that the amount of yaw error would continue very far. I might be wrong and maybe the study addressed the stabilization of the bullet but without seeing the actual report we wont ever know.

If a bullet hits a twig and is deflected, the degree of deflection is carried through the rest of the trajectory. Likewise, if a bullet hits a raindrop and is deflected, it will not magically come back to the original trajectory. It will continue onward following a new trajectory from the point of deflection. This is also the reason why "near" wind in a bullet's trajectory will cause greater deflection than "far" wind. Once deflected offline, the bullet stays deflected. If an impact of some type is sufficient to cause the bullet to become dynamically unstable, the magnitude of deflection is likely to be even greater, possibly preventing the bullet from ever reaching the target.

 

[Drop Port]

Now that Dusty let the cat out of the bag, this stuff is going to be flying off the shelves faster than bargain brand toilet paper in the middle of a coronavirus quarantine zone:

View attachment 1164921

Do you put it on the target or coat your bullets with it?

 

[BartsBullets]

Do you put it on the target or coat your bullets with it?

Neither, two wet patches through the barrel after cleaning. That way it coats your bullets evenly! !

 

[Dusty Stevens]

 

[ronsatspokane]

Sorry but I don't see it in those photos. The shock wave is not modified from what we can see. The rain drop is at the right edge and we just start to see the bullet enter. The rain drop is most assuredly disturbed as is the atmosphere being pushed by the shock wave. What we can't see is what the attitude of the bullet was before the rain drop but we can see that it does not change throughout that photo sequence and we surely do not see what happened as far as impact on flight. As far as the targets presented in this thread, yeah, BTDT. In all conditions. Really pisses me off when a good group is ruined by a single flyer.

 

[Sieg]

View attachment 1165049

Admit it, you sneezed.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Sorry but I don't see it in those photos. The shock wave is not modified from what we can see. The rain drop is at the right edge and we just start to see the bullet enter. The rain drop is most assuredly disturbed as is the atmosphere being pushed by the shock wave. What we can't see is what the attitude of the bullet was before the rain drop but we can see that it does not change throughout that photo sequence and we surely do not see what happened as far as impact on flight. As far as the targets presented in this thread, yeah, BTDT. In all conditions. Really pisses me off when a good group is ruined by a single flyer.

If i could post the video you could clearly see it (i guess i see it in the pics because ive seen the video). Its hard to imagine wind affecting a bullet but a solid hit from a water drop not. They also post how far off po aim it went in their controlled lab environment.

 

[ronsatspokane]

If i could post the video you could clearly see it (i guess i see it in the pics because ive seen the video). Its hard to imagine wind affecting a bullet but a solid hit from a water drop not. They also post how far off po aim it went in their controlled lab environment.

I'm not saying that it is not possible. What I'm saying is that I don't see it in the evidence presented. My contention is that the rain will never hit the bullet even if it punches the drop dead center. The force of the shock wave would vaporize the water and prevent contact. It would in effect be a higher humidity environment which does indeed affect flight. I would think that if that was the case, then the impact would be higher due to water vapor being lighter than air. That it sounds like it is lower leaves me scratching my head. The question in my mind would be, does the slight alteration of the shock wave alter the flight of the bullet in some fashion. There is evidence for that but the physics are not well explained. When I say evidence, I'm thinking of shooting over a magneto speed. It does impact bullet flight. BTDT and it is why I went with a labradar. How it does is not clear and I would like to see if someone has a clear explanation.

 

[Tommie]

When I say evidence, I'm thinking of shooting over a magneto speed. It does impact bullet flight

You don’t think bullet impact is being affected due to the Magneto Speed altering gun harmonics?

 

[ronsatspokane]

You don’t think bullet impact is being affected due to the Magneto Speed altering gun harmonics?

Could be. Lot of variables involved.

 

[TrxR]

I dont know about just rain but a would bet on a water drop from the roof of a shooting shack will cause a deflection . Ive shot in heavy rain shootin rimfire benchrest and from time to time everyone in my club has made a shot then seen a water drop from the roof explode through the scope and sure enough it would be a 8 or so when it hit the target.