To moly or not to moly, that is the question

[ebb]

Tubb is right capable of more speed. But it takes more powder to do it cause of less pressure and less friction. So if you use more powder there is more heat and flame, can this make a barrel last longer?

 

[riflewoman]

In this test report, the authors found no significant difference between moly lubricated bullets and bare bullets.

http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a431357.pdf

As more shooters have used these bullet coatings, it seems there are downsides that make people question the benefits. The increase in velocity seems to be anecdotal, some get it others don’t. There are issues with bore interactions. Some get better life, others have buildup issues. All these issues tell me that moly isn’t a panacea. All of the proponents tell us, “you must be doing it wrong, I get wonderful results”. Not to get political, but it begins to sound like “democratic socialism” to me.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

In this test report, the authors found no significant difference between moly lubricated bullets and bare bullets.

http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a431357.pdf

As more shooters have used these bullet coatings, it seems there are downsides that make people question the benefits. The increase in velocity seems to be anecdotal, some get it others don’t. There are issues with bore interactions. Some get better life, others have buildup issues. All these issues tell me that moly isn’t a panacea. All of the proponents tell us, “you must be doing it wrong, I get wonderful results”. Not to get political, but it begins to sound like “democratic socialism” to me.

Moly is right and will become the law of the land and youll be forced to use it, pay retail for it, and be penalized if you dont.

 

[powderbrake]

I used moly for years on my 223 and 22-250. When I rebarreled them I went to naked bullets.

I did not find any advantages to the moly, and I no longer use it. On my 6ppc and 6BR I have never used any moly, and they shoot fine.

Small increases in velocity are unimportant to me, I look to the target to tell me the best groups, and load to that, rather than chasing a higher velocity.

 

[270WinDude]

One benefit is that it makes your bullets look pretty cool. I wonder if Brian Litz has wrote about them. I'd be more prone to read his results. Even if inconclusive you'd probably walk away with a better understanding of the variables. Again it seems that since the argument is open, you must test. I can't imagine it being too hard to use your best load and coat a handful to compare. I will probably do that one day, just as a seating depth or primer test. The velocity increase and longer barrel life does certainly have logic on it's side to support it, so long as the shooter "does their part"- seriously too.

 

[Milo 2.0]

One benefit is that it makes your bullets look pretty cool. I wonder if Brian Litz has wrote about them. I'd be more prone to read his results. Even if inconclusive you'd probably walk away with a better understanding of the variables. Again it seems that since the argument is open, you must test. I can't imagine it being too hard to use your best load and coat a handful to compare. I will probably do that one day, just as a seating depth or primer test. The velocity increase and longer barrel life does certainly have logic on it's side to support it, so long as the shooter "does their part"- seriously too.

It's not quite that easy as just coating and shooting your existing load. The first thing that happens is pressure loss, so your existing load is out the door, need to add powder to bring it back.
I used to use moly exclusively, I do feel it helps with barrel life if done right. I did not shoot wet bullets, nor really in the rain, rust was never an issue. It helped to clean at set intervals like all barrels.

I have gotten away from using it, except in instances where I use it to back out of pressure. I put 350 pcs of brass minimum into service, I cannot wait for all my brass to be fired before I develop a load, so if a barrel speeds up and I'm into pressure, moly and a slight powder charge change and back in business.
In all honesty, if I were to go back into coating all bullets, I'd opt for WS2, with a wet process. HBN was too finicky for my tastes, coatings need to be the same always, just touching hbn bullets altered velocities.

 

[22DASHER]

Lets face it....Either you shoot Moly and love it or you don't and you hate it. There is absolutely no one in the middle...

 

[270WinDude]

It's not quite that easy as just coating and shooting your existing load. The first thing that happens is pressure loss, so your existing load is out the door, need to add powder to bring it back.
I used to use moly exclusively, I do feel it helps with barrel life if done right. I did not shoot wet bullets, nor really in the rain, rust was never an issue. It helped to clean at set intervals like all barrels.

I have gotten away from using it, except in instances where I use it to back out of pressure. I put 350 pcs of brass minimum into service, I cannot wait for all my brass to be fired before I develop a load, so if a barrel speeds up and I'm into pressure, moly and a slight powder charge change and back in business.
In all honesty, if I were to go back into coating all bullets, I'd opt for WS2, with a wet process. HBN was too finicky for my tastes, coatings need to be the same always, just touching hbn bullets altered velocities.

Good point, I overlooked that. What a pain. So you'd basically have to load develop separate; one with and one without.

 

[#40Fan]

Maybe. Or just moly them, shoot over a chorny and adjust powder charge to get back to your naked readings.

 

[urbanrifleman]

Lets face it....Either you shoot Moly and love it or you don't and you hate it. There is absolutely no one in the middle...

Word.

I love it.

 

[22DASHER]

Maybe. Or just moly them, shoot over a chorny and adjust powder charge to get back to your naked readings.

You got it. Mine shoots the exact same velocity node. It just took 0.5 grains more powder to get there.... plus easier to clean and longer strings inbetween cleanings before accuracy loss. It’s really not rocket science like some seem to think.

 

[#40Fan]

Good point, I overlooked that. What a pain. So you'd basically have to load develop separate; one with and one without.

You want to try some coated bullets? What is your go-to right now? I have some I need to coat this weekend. If you'd be willing to reimburse me, I could swing by the LGS and grab your favorite flavor, coat at the same time I am doing mine and get into the mail on Monday.

 

[1shot]

I find it funny that those who claim Moly coating is too troublesome are the same folks who will take a Q-tip and laboriously lubricate the inside of each case neck before seating their bullets. I use Moly as a bullet/neck lubricant when seating bullets more than for anything it may or may not do for my barrel with regards to accuracy, velocity, or what-have-you.

If you use the proper procedure, coating is easy, pretty quick, and not messy. Do this: Find a large plastic applesauce jar at Walmart. Eat the applesauce. Put two or three hundred bullets in a clean bucket, squirt with Simple Green or some similar powerful decreasing agent, swirl them around, rinse carefully (I use boiling water). Put 'em in the applesauce jar and add water to cover. For the first run add half a tsp of Moly powder; after that about 1/16 tsp or so.

Put the jug on a Harbor Freight tumbler. You must use the longer dual drum model; otherwise, the jug won't fit. The jug has a round top and bottom so it rolls well, but the middle has a molded hand grip with tumbles the bullets very nicely. If it slips, dry the drum and rollers. Let it run for 90 minutes.

Now put a funnel into an empty 1 pound powder jug and put a sieve on top of that. Dump in the bullets and Molly slurry. Cap the powder jug and save the Molly slurry for next time. Rinse the sieve full of Molly coated bullets under running water and watch all the mess go down the drain. If you don't have a good divorce lawyer on retainer, do this in a utility sink in the garage.

Now shake the water out of the sieve and dump the bullets into a metal baking pan lined with paper towels. Shake them around and pat the dry. The towels will now be very wet, so change them and shake the bullets around for 30 seconds or so. Then hit them with a heat gun for a minute while shaking them back and forth. Expect to see tiny black dots on the paper towels as the water is driven out of the meplat area. Let cool and if you're a perfectionist, repeat the heat gun treatment for another minute. Shaking the pan will do a nice job of polishing the bullets.

You will now have a batch of very shiny Molly coated bullets which look like they've been black-chrome plated. What you will NOT have is a big mess, a lung full of black dust, smudges everywhere, or bullets which make your fingers black if you rub them.

Make up your own mind if Molly coating helps when you fire the round, but you should certainly notice a nice smooth and consistent seating effort when you seat these Molly coated bullets. Toss your Q-tips and bullet seating lube.

I use moly for all the reasons @Mozella stated. Additionally, I like to get as close to a 100% case fill that I can, and the additional +.3-.5 of a gr. of powder that is required to attain the velocity lost by the use of moly works to achieve that 100% target number. Also, I recently got a new 308 bbl. for my Palma rifle and decided to shoot nekkid bullets. This bbl. while being very accurate is a virtual copper mine. After finally getting it clean as evidenced by my Hawkeye, I started shooting moly bullets in that bbl. Guess what, no more copper fouling. I will say that in addition to moly, I complete each cleaning cycle with the final patch down the bore, being coated with colloidal graphite. As I've stated in multiple other threads, I feel that the first shot down the bore has the opportunity to ride in SOMETHING as opposed to a dry bore is advantageous.
I have also found that the clean, cold bore shot to be much closed to the middle of the group and the velocity being closer to the average of the sum total of the group than when using moly bullets.
These are my findings, and are worth what you paid for them.

Lloyd

 

[Hengehold]

I noticed that the date on the OP was 2005!! And here we are over a decade later still debating the same topic.

To those that are looking for testing about moly, look to the book “rifle accuracy facts” by Harold Vaughn. Since the book is expensive and no longer in print I can fill you in. Mr. Vaughn tested velocity with naked bullets and also with moly. When testing moly he placed a small measured amount of moly powder on top of the powder charge just prior to seating a naked bullet. The moly on top of the powder charge produced similar velocity changes as a bullet that was coated with the moly. His conclusion was that the presence of moly (either on the base of a moly coated Bullet or the moly powder poured on top of powder charge and seated with a naked bullet) will have a reduction in the burn rate of the powder.

I recently spoke with Brandon Green who is an Army Marksmanship Unit soldier and has won multiple NRA high power national championships. He shoots moly in his 6XC with Norma factor Ammo. His testing with hand loads at 600yards resulted in consistently higher X-counts but each 20 shot string would have 1-2 flyers that would cause the overall size of the group to be larger than the Norma factory ammo. He presumes that the hand loaded bullets which are moly coated by the AMU in the reloading shop may not be coated as consistently as the factory ammo which is coated by Norma.

The long and short of it is that this is a game of consistency and elimination of variables. The use of moly is introducing one more variable that does not need to be introduced. Consistently, I do not use moly.

-T

 

[NCVarhtr]

I have used Moly for well over 20 years. I like it and my rifles like it. John Whidden is one of the best Competition Rifles Shooters today and he has won many national matches and he uses it. So do lots of other informed shooters. I could go on but if you don't like--don't use it. There are many advantages to using Moly, that's why we use it.

 

[270WinDude]

You want to try some coated bullets? What is your go-to right now? I have some I need to coat this weekend. If you'd be willing to reimburse me, I could swing by the LGS and grab your favorite flavor, coat at the same time I am doing mine and get into the mail on Monday.

Thank you for that offer! If it was next year I'd jump on it. Since I'm just getting into all this I am still over my head in the projects I've got going on. I'm working loads for 8 different bullets. I'm only about done with a couple of them since I haven't been able to head out much this summer.

 

[#40Fan]

The offer will still stand. Hollar when you are ready.

 

[270WinDude]

The offer will still stand. Hollar when you are ready.

Awesome thank you. Once I get all my stuff together I'll give a holler and see if you're up for a batch. I will get around to testing some eventually.