To flute or not to

[284winner]

My particular barrel lost 11 ounces from fluting. It's a sendero/varmint contour weight barrel. The heavier the barrel or contour, the more material can be removed for a safe result. Being my barrel isn't that heavy, I really didn't have deep flutes cut. 6 straight flutes were cut in the barrel and are about 18-20" long. Really in my case I didn't do it for looks but for weight reduction. I obtained my goal of a 10 lb scoped rifle. Does the 11 oz really matter, probably not but I had a goal that I wanted to meet. I made the decision to flute understanding that I might regret it from an accuracy stand point. Rolled the dice but turned out well in my case. I have a few fluted barrel rifles and they all shoot well. I do not shoot competition so none of this stuff really affected my end result.

 

[Eddie Harren]

My particular barrel lost 11 ounces from fluting. It's a sendero/varmint contour weight barrel. The heavier the barrel or contour, the more material can be removed for a safe result. Being my barrel isn't that heavy, I really didn't have deep flutes cut. 6 straight flutes were cut in the barrel and are about 18-20" long. Really in my case I didn't do it for looks but for weight reduction. I obtained my goal of a 10 lb scoped rifle. Does the 11 oz really matter, probably not but I had a goal that I wanted to meet. I made the decision to flute understanding that I might regret it from an accuracy stand point. Rolled the dice but turned out well in my case. I have a few fluted barrel rifles and they all shoot well. I do not shoot competition so none of this stuff really affected my end result.

Did you leave out a decimal point?

 

[284winner]

Did you leave out a decimal point?

Out of what ?

 

[Eddie Harren]

Out of what ?

You shallow fluted a RemVar contour with six flutes and lost nearly 3/4 of a pound? Dis you mean 1.1 Oz.?

 

[284winner]

You shallow fluted a RemVar contour with six flutes and lost nearly 3/4 of a pound? Dis you mean 1.1 Oz.?

Your funny. I never said shallow, i said not deep. They are deeper than savage does. Never would have bothered if I didn't expect at least 8 oz. The flutes are 22" long

 

[dcali]

There's a reason that there is no solid answer to this question - it's because when you remove material from the barrel, you *change* the barrel's response to being fired (how it moves/vibrates). That's not necessarily good or bad - it's just different.

...assuming that the flutes first did no harm during manufacturing, of course.

Bottom line? costs a few bucks, loses a few ounces.

 

[jmatters]

...The fluting increases stiffness not by allowing a larger contour but through the extra bracing the sides of the cut produce by milling the trough.

I don't understand how removing material makes the material that remains stiffer. Wouldn't the grain structure at the edges be compromised rather than stiffened?
Back in the day, Nascar guys periodically tried gun drilled axles and they gave up on them. (But my racing days were 20 years ago,,,)

 

[JRS]

I don't understand how removing material makes the material that remains stiffer. Wouldn't the grain structure at the edges be compromised rather than stiffened?
Back in the day, Nascar guys periodically tried gun drilled axles and they gave up on them. (But my racing days were 20 years ago,,,)

Read post #9

 

[dcali]

I don't understand how removing material makes the material that remains stiffer. Wouldn't the grain structure at the edges be compromised rather than stiffened?
Back in the day, Nascar guys periodically tried gun drilled axles and they gave up on them. (But my racing days were 20 years ago,,,)

You're correct. Removing material reduces stiffness. That's why there's always the caveat of "of the same contour" or "of the same weight". The only way to have a fluted barrel weigh as much as a non-fluted one is to make it larger in diameter. If we made fluted barrels by adding material, you'd hear everyone saying that fluting a barrel adds stiffness. But we don't - we machine it, so it reduces stiffness.

 

[Tempest]

To follow up on my previous post on this regarding the fluted barrel. Some asked if the new fluted barrel shot. Well last weekend, my 18 year old son shot a 600 yard FTR match and on match 2, shot a 196-10X. Best he's ever done, so in my book, the barrel shoots.

 

[Bart B.]

Anyone air gauge (or hole mic) a barrel before then after fluting it?

If so, what changed?

 

[savagedasher]

I don't understand how removing material makes the material that remains stiffer. Wouldn't the grain structure at the edges be compromised rather than stiffened?
Back in the day, Nascar guys periodically tried gun drilled axles and they gave up on them. (But my racing days were 20 years ago,,,)

Gun drilled axels is the norm just ordered 2 sets last week .
Have you ever seen a solid wrist pin .
The big thing now is gun drilled titanium axels they twist a full turn under power .
Larry

 

[jmatters]

Gun drilled axels is the norm just ordered 2 sets last week .
Have you ever seen a solid wrist pin .
The big thing now is gun drilled titanium axels they twist a full turn under power .
Larry

Time marches on!

 

[Art Dirindin]

I personally have never seen significant differences in fluted vs nonfluted, but just to play devil's advocate:


Lilja - "If the barrel is fluted a maximum heavy varmint blank is usually used and for good reason. As we saw above, the larger the diameter, the stiffer it is going to be. Using a heavy varmint blank then gives us the maximum diameter allowed. Fluting a barrel removes weight, up to one pound or so depending on flute size. It also lowers a barrel’s moment of inertia value but not by very much. Some have the mistaken idea that fluting alone increases the stiffness of a barrel. This is not true. The fluted barrel of a given weight and length will be stiffer than an unfluted barrel of the same weight. The fluted barrel will not be stiffer than the same taper and length barrel that is not fluted though."

Shilen -
"What about "fluting" a barrel?
Fluting is a service we neither offer nor recommend. If you have a Shilen barrel fluted, the warranty is void. Fluting a barrel can induce unrecoverable stresses that will encourage warping when heated and can also swell the bore dimensions, causing loose spots in the bore. A solid (un-fluted) barrel is more rigid than a fluted barrel of equal diameter. A fluted barrel is more rigid than a solid barrel of equal weight. All rifle barrels flex when fired. Accuracy requires that they simply flex the same and return the same each time they are fired, hence the requirement for a pillar bedded action and free floating barrel. The unrecoverable stresses that fluting can induce will cause the barrel to flex differently or not return from the flexing without cooling down a major amount. This is usually longer than a shooter has to wait for the next shot. The claim of the flutes helping to wick heat away faster is true, but the benefit of the flutes is not recognizable in this regard until the barrel is already too hot"

I think really the take-away is that, like almost everything with shooting, every one has their own opinions.

I read this same article 15+ years ago, it was in an article where Mr. Shilen was also decrying barrel brake in as useless and doing so would void his barrel warranty.

 

[paulT]

To follow up on my previous post on this regarding the fluted barrel. Some asked if the new fluted barrel shot. Well last weekend, my 18 year old son shot a 600 yard FTR match and on match 2, shot a 196-10X. Best he's ever done, so in my book, the barrel shoots.

Hi Tempest Are you shooting same Load after flutting as before.

 

[Tempest]

Barrel was fluted when new, so no idea. Has since shot 199-11X at 600 in FTR, so I'm convinced it shoots. Ordered another one just like it.

 

[6ShotsOr5?]

I have a heavy AR10 style 6.5CM with a 22” Rainier Ultramatch fluted barrel. I never had one just like it unfluted so I don’t know which one would shoot better, but I don’t like it. Those flutes are sharp and because the rifle is heavy it hurts when I pick it up by the barrel.

 

[007]

NOT TO FLUTE. Unless you just think it looks cool.....and some of them do, it provides no benefit to precision and may just do the opposite. Although I have two factory rifles that came fluted and they shoot more than just fine.

 

[Bart B.]

Some years ago, a 'smith in California air gauged 4 heavy match 308 Win barrels; pulled from rifles, fluted them, then gauged them again.

The button rifled barrel, couple ten thousandths wavy spread at each end of the flutes, area under flutes, about .0002" to .0003" bigger.

Hammer forged barrel, about the same change at flute ends, area under flutes was same amount smaller.

Single point cut and broach cut barrels had only about .0001" change in fluted area.

Barrels gun drilled, then fluted, then reamed, rifled and lapped to specs have the most uniform dimensions. Easier with cut rifled barrels, but button rifled ones can be as good.

 

[Desert Fox]

Here's a good read regarding barrel fluting. Varmint Al concluded that if done correctly, a fluted barrel is 20-23% more accurate than a non fluted barrel

http://www.varmintal.com/aflut.htm