To flute or not to
- Thread starter TackDriv3r
- Start date
Last trip to the Super Shoot I got to visit with Tony Boyer. He told me his gunsmith flutes all of his barrels.
I got the same advice from Dan Lilja many years ago and Bartlein recently.
I got the same advice from Dan Lilja many years ago and Bartlein recently.
IMO it's all a marketing scheme. I have heard arguments for and against it all. The one thing that we can Not argue is that it decreases the weight and that is usually a good thing. I would not be surprised to see world record holders use them or not. I wonder if even the difference is measurable???
Flutes are like flames on a hot rod . Just for looks . Everyone that thinks it removes weight are correct but a few ( if that ) ounces are better removed elsewhere . Not inducing another variable , consistent depth , width , degrees centered , length etc to the most important accuracy part of the rifle .
I just got done reading Chapter 11 of Modern Advancements in Long Range Shooting (volume 2) by Bryan Litz. Anyone that is a fan of fluting I would recommend that they read chapter 11 and especially figure 11.11 on page 258.
I don't read the nonsense PRB has to say.
Here are a few recent videos of Tony. None of these barrels appears to have been fluted.
Alex Wheeler
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Barrels of equal contour- the fluted one is less rigid
Barrels with any stress- fluting will distort the bore
Fluting with heavy cuts and heat can induce stress
I use fluted barrels on hunting rifle where we are trying to save weight. In reality its for looks 99% of the time. I never use them on BR or F-class rifles. I do not like to flute after the barrel is made. Not all manufactures flute before the barrel is rifled. If I need a fluted barrel I will use Brux or Rock creek, they both flute before the rifling is cut and final lapping is performed. Krieger flutes as the last step. Assuming done correctly and theres no stress in the steel then there shouldnt be a problem. Typically to save weight I would prefer to use a smaller contour.
Barrels with any stress- fluting will distort the bore
Fluting with heavy cuts and heat can induce stress
I use fluted barrels on hunting rifle where we are trying to save weight. In reality its for looks 99% of the time. I never use them on BR or F-class rifles. I do not like to flute after the barrel is made. Not all manufactures flute before the barrel is rifled. If I need a fluted barrel I will use Brux or Rock creek, they both flute before the rifling is cut and final lapping is performed. Krieger flutes as the last step. Assuming done correctly and theres no stress in the steel then there shouldnt be a problem. Typically to save weight I would prefer to use a smaller contour.
When I visited with Tony and Faye at the SS in the mid-nineties all of their barrels I saw were fluted. I also had a full head of hair and a full, jet black beard and mustache. These days I am going with very thin on top, and my color preference for facial hair is a white/gray mix.
One of these days I will share the method Savage uses to flute their barrels.
Things change.
One of these days I will share the method Savage uses to flute their barrels.
Things change.
"One of these days I will share the method Savage uses to flute their barrels."
I can hardly wait.
I can hardly wait.
With all due respect, that was 20 years ago. Supposedly Skip Otto favored fluted barrels for competition........but he did them himself. If TB was still using fluted barrels, you can bet half the firing line would have them......they don't.
The times I saw Tony shoot, never saw a fluted barrel. In fact I never saw many fluted barrels in short range BR. Now I only went to the nationals a couple of times. But seeing there are big points for winning shooter of the year, I would bet they are shooting the best barrels they own. Matt
Carl Hildebrandt and I were friends in the PS days. He was head of R&D for Savage for many years. When Ron Coburn was running Savage, he and Carl used to go to used machinery/equipment sales in the NE. H&R went out of business in the early nineties (iirc) and they went to the auction. Carl points to a piece of tooling and tells Coburn "Buy me that...". He did, and Carl hauled it home. Several days later he called Coburn down to the Custom Shop to show him what he had bought. H&R made these cute little revolvers, and like most, they fluted the cylinders. Carl had modified it to cut all the flutes at one time on rifle barrels. The jig allowed Savage to fit the barrel to the action first, then flute. Carl believed, as I do, that cutting all the flutes at one time equalized the stress on the barrel. The test data he shared with me seemed to prove that concept. They shot barreled actions in their test facility, unfluted, and kept track of the accuracy. They then fluted them, and shot them again to compare accuracy. He said accuracy was improved in most cases, and not degraded in any of them.
Cutting flutes one at a time will induce barrel stress. I would think rotating the barrel 180-degrees would minimize it; and cryo-ing it should eliminate that.
I have a Pence cut-rifled 338 barrel that Skip fluted. As soon as I wear my current 338 LM barrel out it is going on.
Yes, things do change. People once believed that one reason 700's did not shoot as accurately as single shot 40X's was because loading and ejection ports allowed more flex. Not we know that the more ports you can cut in an action, the more accurately and consistently it will shoot. At least that would be the reason for the RB, LP, LE trend. Or is there another answer...?
Cutting flutes one at a time will induce barrel stress. I would think rotating the barrel 180-degrees would minimize it; and cryo-ing it should eliminate that.
I have a Pence cut-rifled 338 barrel that Skip fluted. As soon as I wear my current 338 LM barrel out it is going on.
Yes, things do change. People once believed that one reason 700's did not shoot as accurately as single shot 40X's was because loading and ejection ports allowed more flex. Not we know that the more ports you can cut in an action, the more accurately and consistently it will shoot. At least that would be the reason for the RB, LP, LE trend. Or is there another answer...?
I am glad someone pointed out this chapter in BL's book. It dispels every supposed benefit mentioned here with actual testing. Its a must read for anyone wanting to re-barrel. In the end the only benefit is lighter weight and oh yeah, it looks cooler.
The dual ports are for shooting faster. A fired case is coming out the one side while you are putting in a new one. They don't get in each others way. It also frees up your non bolt hand to put the shells in. The bolt hand can now stay on the bolt and shut it right away. It is faster then having to remove your hand put in a shell and go back to the bolt to shut it.
Plus if you look at custom actions the ports are cut in the sides. It let's metal on the top of the action like a bridge. The cuts are also smaller and not over the top like a Remington and most are single shots with solid bottoms. Now you get more bedding area and a stiffer action. Matt
thanks, I think. If a computer simulation says so, like everything on the Internet; it must be true. Of course, scientists also proved that Bumblebees are too unaerodynamic to fly.
I stand by the only empirical data produced. That by Savage 25 or so years ago. This would be a good time for someone to fit, chamber, and headspace barrels to an action; then fire them. Then flute without removing the barrel from the action and retest.
Since that is not likely, all we have is conjecture and opinions. That, and the fact that it costs well over $100 to flute a barrel weighs heavily in the process.
I could very well be wrong, I've been married twice, so my judgment is occasionally suspect.
Now to the idea of bottom ports...
I stand by the only empirical data produced. That by Savage 25 or so years ago. This would be a good time for someone to fit, chamber, and headspace barrels to an action; then fire them. Then flute without removing the barrel from the action and retest.
Since that is not likely, all we have is conjecture and opinions. That, and the fact that it costs well over $100 to flute a barrel weighs heavily in the process.
I could very well be wrong, I've been married twice, so my judgment is occasionally suspect.
Now to the idea of bottom ports...
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