TN Bushings causing engraving marks on necks during sizing

[tooter]

Anyone know if this subject has been discussed here before? Cause? Fix? etc.

I've sent new bushings and sample cases back to Redding in the past and they have sent replacements along with my cases each time. However, I've recently experienced a good .244 bushing going south after less than 200 dry cycles on clean necks. So, after case cleaning (SS pins or Ultrasonic), should necks be lubed prior to sizing with these bushings? Hopefully you folks can explain what's going on and how to prevent this in the future since these little buggers are $25+ a pop!

Also, is anyone making custom carbide bushings i.e .244 as I neck turn all .224 cal. cases (221,223, 22PPC, 222mag) down to .011 thk.?

Thanks Tooter

 

[CatShooter]

Anyone know if this subject has been discussed here before? Cause? Fix? etc.

I've sent new bushings and sample cases back to Redding in the past and they have sent replacements along with my cases each time. However, I've recently experienced a good .244 bushing going south after less than 200 dry cycles on clean necks. So, after case cleaning (SS pins or Ultrasonic), should necks be lubed prior to sizing with these bushings? Hopefully you folks can explain what's going on and how to prevent this in the future since these little buggers are $25+ a pop!

Also, is anyone making custom carbide bushings i.e .244 as I neck turn all .224 cal. cases (221,223, 22PPC, 222mag) down to .011 thk.?

Thanks Tooter

The cause is neck brass slowly building up at the mouth of the bushing - since the brass is the same color as the TiN coating, it is not obvious at first. It drove me crazy the first time it happened. Drop the bushing in a cup with bore solvent for a few hours and that will get rid of it - a little lube on the outside of the neck every once in a while will prevent it from coming back.

 

[jlow]

That’s the trick – you have to lube especially if you cleaned with SS-media because really clean brass is grabby. Would suggest Imperial lube.

If you don’t lube, some of the brass will gall on your bushing and that in turn will scratch your necks. I use the regular SS bushing and actually polish it with Rubbing Compound No.7 (Ace hardware) to smooth it out to a mirror finish, but since you have TN bushing, you may or may not want to do that.

To see if what I say is true, look at your bushing that is scratching using a magnifying loupe and you should see the brass deposits at the neck opening. What you need to do is to remove that galling, normally I would suggest the above polish but I would say if you decide to use it be very gentle as you don’t want to remove that TN finish. I dip Q-tips in the rubbing compound and chuck it into a drill.

 

[mshelton]

It's good to learn something new each day

 

[CatShooter]

That’s the trick – you have to lube especially if you cleaned with SS-media because really clean brass is grabby. Would suggest Imperial lube.

If you don’t lube, some of the brass will gall on your bushing and that in turn will scratch your necks. I use the regular SS bushing and actually polish it with Rubbing Compound No.7 (Ace hardware) to smooth it out to a mirror finish, but since you have TN bushing, you may or may not want to do that.

To see if what I say is true, look at your bushing that is scratching using a magnifying loupe and you should see the brass deposits at the neck opening. What you need to do is to remove that galling, normally I would suggest the above polish but I would say if you decide to use it be very gentle as you don’t want to remove that TN finish. I dip Q-tips in the rubbing compound and chuck it into a drill.

I found that using a bushing after annealing is also problematic, cuz the brass gets "Grabby"... so I size first, and then anneal after sizing.

I have tried to polish the TiN finish, don't worry, it is NOT fragile - it is bullet (and silicone carbide) proof ! I could not remove it with a 1/4" power drill, a 30° tapered plug, and #2000 grit carbide, and a lot of force.

 

[jlow]

That’s good to know! Since I have not polish TN bushing before, I did not want to be cavalier and give advice that might damage his equipment.

 

[bow shot]

Tooter, by "going south", do you mean simply that the bushing leaves marks, or do you (also) mean that it no longer sizes properly, ie., ithe ID of the bushing is now larger than it should be?

Just curious...

 

[CatShooter]

Tooter, by "going south", do you mean simply that the bushing leaves marks, or do you (also) mean that it no longer sizes properly, ie., ithe ID of the bushing is now larger than it should be?

Just curious...

It went from New Hampshire, to Georgia.

 

[243winxb]

case cleaning

Over cleaning cartridge brass removes surface zinc from the brass. Zinc acts as a lube. Do use a tiny bit of lube on the outside of the neck with Redding TN bushings. Cartridge Brass-
Material is 70 copper/30 zinc with trace amounts of lead & iron , called C26000.

 

[Comrade Terry]

I use powdered graphite as a lubricant when sizing necks with a TN die. I know the dies aren't supposed to need a lube, but it makes life easier.

 

[artbosco]

Anyone know if this subject has been discussed here before? Cause? Fix? etc.

I've sent new bushings and sample cases back to Redding in the past and they have sent replacements along with my cases each time. However, I've recently experienced a good .244 bushing going south after less than 200 dry cycles on clean necks. So, after case cleaning (SS pins or Ultrasonic), should necks be lubed prior to sizing with these bushings? Hopefully you folks can explain what's going on and how to prevent this in the future since these little buggers are $25+ a pop!

Also, is anyone making custom carbide bushings i.e .244 as I neck turn all .224 cal. cases (221,223, 22PPC, 222mag) down to .011 thk.?

Thanks Tooter

TN bushings aren't all they're advertised to be. I always had to lube them regardless of how the cases were cleaned. I've been using nothing but carbide for several years.

Carbide Bushings are available here:

Bud Mundy, Director
NBRSA, Mississippi Valley Region
5956 Old Hickory Trail
Hillsboro, MO 63050-3251
Home: 636-797-5786
Cell: 641-425-3397

Bud can get most sizes. Before he sends them out he QC checks them for proper dimension.

 

[CatShooter]

TN bushings aren't all they're advertised to be.

I once thought the TiN were great, but now I buy the steel bushings - not because they are cheaper, but because I can polish the flaws and give them a true glass mirror finish.

 

[stool]

maybe you can explain how CLEANING breaks down an ALLOY ??

using the wrong chemicals can cause de-alloying.....but not just day in and day out polishing with corn or walnut media .....i use nufinish car POLISH with mine..

Over cleaning cartridge brass removes surface zinc from the brass. Zinc acts as a lube. Do use a tiny bit of lube on the outside of the neck with Redding TN bushings. Cartridge Brass-
Material is 70 copper/30 zinc with trace amounts of lead & iron , called C26000.

 

[CatShooter]

maybe you can explain how CLEANING breaks down an ALLOY ??

using the wrong chemicals can cause de-alloying.....but not just day in and day out polishing with corn or walnut media .....i use nufinish car POLISH with mine..

Over cleaning cartridge brass removes surface zinc from the brass. Zinc acts as a lube. Do use a tiny bit of lube on the outside of the neck with Redding TN bushings. Cartridge Brass-
Material is 70 copper/30 zinc with trace amounts of lead & iron , called C26000.

+2...

Using corn cob or walnut, you cannot remove the zinc more than a few molecules deep, and that is nothing. If you depend on zinc for a "lube" you are going to be very unhappy someday.

 

[stubbicatt]

Yep. I had this problem. I found using a little Imperial Sizing Wax and no more issues. I did use a bore brush, a patch, and JB Compound to buff off the accumulated brass.

There is supposedly a slight taper or the like on bushes, and depending on Redding or Wilson, the ring with the stampings either goes up, or down, depending on manufacture.

Maybe this will help you too.

 

[CatShooter]

Yep. I had this problem. I found using a little Imperial Sizing Wax and no more issues. I did use a bore brush, a patch, and JB Compound to buff off the accumulated brass.

There is supposedly a slight taper or the like on bushes, and depending on Redding or Wilson, the ring with the stampings either goes up, or down, depending on manufacture.

Maybe this will help you too.

I have not found a taper in the Redding bushings. I put the stamp up so I can see what is in it.

 

[tooter]

Wow ---- yes, most certainly an education! Thank you all for the replies with such good information. I'll be adding a tad of Imperial in the future for neck sizing with TN bushings, but cant wait to get my hands on a .244 carbide one!

Bow Shot - going south meant from smooth necks to engraved ones.
Outdoorsman - thanks for the carbide bushing source.

 

[6fatrat]

Wow ---- yes, most certainly an education! Thank you all for the replies with such good information. I'll be adding a tad of Imperial in the future for neck sizing with TN bushings, but cant wait to get my hands on a .244 carbide one!

Bow Shot - going south meant from smooth necks to engraved ones.
Outdoorsman - thanks for the carbide bushing source.
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[tenring]

Good info. I have noticed the same problem with my 6ppc brass and thought 0000 steel wool would correct it, but it did not. Even with the engraving on the necks, the brass was very accurate.

 

[lpreddick]

?taper on redding bushings...are we refering to a "chamfer". they do have this on the inside of both ends and i'v used them both ways without any difference. got really bad scratches with new brass...deburred and all was well. i'll pay closer attention to the brass deposits mentioned as sometimes i get scratches with oder brass...now i know why.