Titegroup a substitute for Trail Boss?

[Timmis2]

Ultimate Reloader did this video a few months ago suggesting Titegroup may be a substitute for Trail Boss for light powder charges and subsonic rifle loads. 8 grains of Titegroup in a 308 for instance. No published data that I know of and just a "try it" from the video. I'm wondering if anyone here has tried it. Titegroup is very different than Trailboss...TG is extremely fast and dense whereas TB is bulky and slow. Titegroup supposedly works because it's not position sensitive in the case and powder volume as low as 20% seems to be acceptable. Quite a few comments under the video suggest others have had some success with it.

 

[brokeasajoke]

Hodgdon has it listed on there reloading data center (RDC). Pick 308 and then chose the powder before selecting the bullet and you will find titegroup listed with a couple of loads. I've used it in .223 quite a bit.

 

[Oso]

If you can’t finding load data for use in subsonic 308 then go search for 300Blackout subsonic load data using Titegroup. Due to the minimal case fill, the ES/SD for 308 will be a little different then 300BO. Keep in mind your twist rate might be too slow to stabilize the heavy projectiles that a 300BK (1:7twist) was designed to handle these. Lighter projectiles will be your friend in a 1:10 barrel

Titegroup and Bullseye are very similar. Both are fast burning and provide high energy in a relatively small charge weight/volume. They are within .1gr-.2gr of each other for same result.

 

[3Ackleys]

Hodgdon has it listed on there reloading data center (RDC). Pick 308 and then chose the powder before selecting the bullet and you will find titegroup listed with a couple of loads. I've used it in .223 quite a bit.

You can also choose "subsonic" from the reloading data center home page, for all sub data.

 

[Timmis2]

My proposed application with Titegroup for rifle loads is a little different than what the there is data for although it could be a starting point for extrapolation and testing, and from other forums and FB groups, it has been done by others successfully. Shooters World has published data for a similar load than I'm proposing but the powder they use (and another powder that is the same powder under a different brand) is out of stock everywhere like Trail Boss (Buffalo Rifle and it's supposed twin brother 5744). I simply want to reload light weight .355 projectiles (9mm) in 350 Legend cases with 9mm powder charges in a bolt action rifle, not necessarily purposely subsonic, but for reasons of an inexpensive plinking load for the range at 100 yards or less. A 147gr 9mm profile .355 projectile loaded with a pistol powder charge to achieve close to a 9mm's "normal" velocity around 1200FPS in a 350 Legend case (which would yield more than 1200FPS from a rifle barrel) would be somewhere in the 20-25%% case capacity range, and without data to back it up, there is always a fear of detonation. I think part of the reason there is no data for this is most 350 Legend chambered rifles, are AR platforms and proposed loads like these will not cycle AR's so bolt-action folks play second fiddle to what works in an AR's semi-auto action. There is data for 9mm projectiles in 350 Legend cases but they use rifle powders and the minimum powder charge is 24 grains and velocities begin over 2000fps which should cycle an AR. An advantage to me and others if Titegroup is the answer, is, If all I have is 147gr Hornady XTP projectiles or similar FMJ bullets, and a pound of Titegroup, I can reload for both a 9mm pistol and a 350 Legend rifle, potentially even sharing the same primers. If even lighter grain projectiles can be reloaded in 350 Legend with Titegroup safely, then velocity gains can quickly approach 2000+ FPS and there you have an inexpensive load that can dispatch a coyote or varmint at distances further than 100 yards if accuracy is ideal. Wishful thinking.

 

[Timmis2]

Hodgdon has it listed on there reloading data center (RDC). Pick 308 and then chose the powder before selecting the bullet and you will find titegroup listed with a couple of loads. I've used it in .223 quite a bit.

I see that now thanks. I wonder if someone with Quickload or just the info needed can tell me what percentage of case capacity Titegroup has with just 8 grains in a 308 case using the projectiles in the data. This would be good information to reference how Titegroup has been used in a published load with an abnormally large amount of empty space in the case.

 

[brokeasajoke]

My proposed application with Titegroup for rifle loads is a little different than what the there is data for although it could be a starting point for extrapolation and testing, and from other forums and FB groups, it has been done by others successfully. Shooters World has published data for a similar load than I'm proposing but the powder they use (and another powder that is the same powder under a different brand) is out of stock everywhere like Trail Boss (Buffalo Rifle and it's supposed twin brother 5744). I simply want to reload light weight .355 projectiles (9mm) in 350 Legend cases with 9mm powder charges in a bolt action rifle, not necessarily purposely subsonic, but for reasons of an inexpensive plinking load for the range at 100 yards or less. A 147gr 9mm profile .355 projectile loaded with a pistol powder charge to achieve close to a 9mm's "normal" velocity around 1200FPS in a 350 Legend case (which would yield more than 1200FPS from a rifle barrel) would be somewhere in the 20-25%% case capacity range, and without data to back it up, there is always a fear of detonation. I think part of the reason there is no data for this is most 350 Legend chambered rifles, are AR platforms and proposed loads like these will not cycle AR's so bolt-action folks play second fiddle to what works in an AR's semi-auto action. There is data for 9mm projectiles in 350 Legend cases but they use rifle powders and the minimum powder charge is 24 grains and velocities begin over 2000fps which should cycle an AR. An advantage to me and others if Titegroup is the answer, is, If all I have is 147gr Hornady XTP projectiles or similar FMJ bullets, and a pound of Titegroup, I can reload for both a 9mm pistol and a 350 Legend rifle, potentially even sharing the same primers. If even lighter grain projectiles can be reloaded in 350 Legend with Titegroup safely, then velocity gains can quickly approach 2000+ FPS and there you have an inexpensive load that can dispatch a coyote or varmint at distances further than 100 yards if accuracy is ideal. Wishful thinking.

At risk of being highly scolded I'm still going to just say my thoughts and these are my and only my thoughts, there are several cartridges Hodgdon has data for. I wonder if one could extrapolate charge for titegroup vs case capacity and bullet weight. I see there is over 10gr for some 30-06 loads and down to 3.6gr for one particular .223. Yes I know before I get flamed that reloading isn't like baking a cake you don't just change the recipe up and create something and see how it turns out. I actually left face book group cause book data was sticking my bolt and I got highly fused at for using way less than book min to get my bolt to open. That was a particular powder I long since got rid of.

 

[Oso]

The amount of bearing surface engagement that a 147gr 9mm bullet will be more contact with bore than a rifle bullet with its swept ogee. You’ll get a tighter seal and some additional pressure. At reduced charge weights it’s not a safety issue but results may not track (apples to oranges) for load data for rifle bullets. If you are planning on using a coated lead bullet then the extra bearing surface won’t be a big deal.

DIY - My Chargemaster has a hard time efficiently throwing lower charge weights. I used 9.5gr Bullseye to do some Cream of Wheat fireforming on 223 cases. I went old school and used a 9mm case as a powder scoop. A couple of minutes with a metal file to dial in the correct case volume to achieve desired charge weight, and soldered it to a brass rod. I guess you could solder a 223 or Legend case tothe 9mm case to serve as a handle.

 

[209jones]

I've only used pistol/shotgun powders with cast bullets in some rifle rounds, Green Dot in 7x57, 7-08, also used AA9 in 7-08 and 223 and 218Bee, may have used some Red Dot or WWAA473 dot at one time, don't think I ever tried 540, used to have all of those. Green Dot tended to stay under 10gr, AA9 was a bit more, in the 10-14 range, case fill wasn't an issue, but being very careful not to double charge was.. AA5744 is a much easier powder to use in a lot of scenarios on rifle ctges, Accurate lists a lot of reduced loads using it, not for subsonic though. None of my rifle loads were subsonic, and never used jacketed bullets. Lyman used to show some pistol/shotgun powder reduced loads for cast bullets. Seems to me Accurate also shows some for AA9.

 

[brokeasajoke]

I wanted to see how low I could go with titegroup one time and stuck a jacketed bullet. It was a bear to get knocked out.