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Titanium Actions -- Comments Wanted

6Al-4V Grade 5 Ti
I have very little experience in working with Titanium, as we do not use it in the marine industry that much. We do work with the various Stainless Alloys on a regular basis.

Do you use bar stock that is already hardened in the 37 RC as purchased, or do you purchase normalized and annealed stock and do a in house treatment either before or after rough machining operations.

Since the properties of Titanium rival those of the usual Chrome Moly at around 37 RC, I am surprised that more manufactures have not used it, especially in weight conscience classes such as NBRSA Light Varmint and Sporter.
 
I have very little experience in working with Titanium, as we do not use it in the marine industry that much. We do work with the various Stainless Alloys on a regular basis.

Do you use bar stock that is already hardened in the 37 RC as purchased, or do you purchase normalized and annealed stock and do a in house treatment either before or after rough machining operations.

Since the properties of Titanium rival those of the usual Chrome Moly at around 37 RC, I am surprised that more manufactures have not used it, especially in weight conscience classes such as NBRSA Light Varmint and Sporter.
How much more would a mfr have to pay for a bar of titanium as opposed to say 17-4? I have machined a lot of titanium in automatic machines i wasnt buying tools for and didnt really notice anything abnormal with wear until i got to hastelloy types of materials
 
We pay approx $8.50 a pound for 17-4 Aquamet Boat Shafting which is age hardened at 1150 degrees F.
Aquamet 22, which is not a Precipitation Hardening Stainless, (it gets it’s strength solely from alloy content) will run around $12 a pound.

22 is not as strong as 17, but has 4 times the corrosion resistance.

We pay around $8.50 a pound for 316 L submerged arc welding wire.

I think Titanium runs around $30 a pound.
 
Definitely par for the course, and our experience, too.

A weird antiseize corrosion story that you might find interesting. NEVER use MoS2 based thread lubes in joints exposed to sea water in or traversing coastal waters and tidal estuaries (like harbors). We had a some equipment external to the pressure hull, and hence sea exposed, on our submarines that had to be taken apart and serviced every 18 months or something like that (not little ones either - they were inch or inch and a half), and whenever they had to be taken apart the nuts were corroded to the fasteners and had to be cut off and the bolts had to be replaced. The culprit was the MoS2 based thread lube. We did two things; we switched to Fel-Pro C5A on a hunch (manufacturer bought out I think, and called something else now), about 50% petroleum based carrier, and the rest colloidal copper and graphite, which cured the problem - break them loose and then twist them by hand. Armed with that experience, the second thing we did was put an experienced marine biologist at a Navy lab to work on it, and she informed us that there are certain bacteria found in coastal waters and especially harbors that eat MoS2 for lunch, with the breakdown products of that consumption including molybdic and sulfuric acids. No wonder we had problems. But the switch to a graphite based antiseize, even in a constantly seawater exposed application, cured the problem.
Biological cause!! Not on any FMEA of mine! Great story.

My application was high temp exhaust manifold screws that because of the higher nickel content tend to gall when assembled (like a stainless fastener might). Combination of spiralock threads and silver plated nuts finally made a turbo bolted joint that works.

bolted joints are easy until you have a 700c thermal cycle and a short grip length.
 
I`m considering a titanium action / carbon stock combo for a light weight coyote gun.

What, if any, problems might i run into using this as a switch barrel rig????

It would be a .22-243 AI / 6.5 SAUM switch barrel......

Looking for opinions from people with experience with Ti. actions.

Thanks,

Phil.
The Defiance Anti is a solid option also.
 
I am curious if the wear from the bolt lugs on the receiver lugs is higher for a Titanium action because the Titanium metal is softer than steel or stainless? I am thinking of buying a Titanium action for an F-TR rifle and curious about this due to the high rate of shooting.
 
Machining titanium is far more demanding than common steels. When machining most steels, the heat goes into the chip. Titanium does not let much heat into the chips so it's into the cutter and coolants to an extent. When machining many steels, we can go a shift or several shifts on a single cutter. With titanium, our cutter life is measured in minutes, many around 200 minutes or so. At $180/carbide cutter, with removal rates that pale in comparison to most steels, you're taking on considerable additional costs to produce from titanium.

So that's a big part of why not much titanium is used. It's costly, cutting it is multiples more costly, and profits are measured as a percentage of return. To get X percentage of return, Ti anything is going to cost multiples of their steel counterparts. Quite frankly I can't believe Ti actions are as affordable as they are.

NOW, if you're talking Inconel or Waspalloy or any of the super high nickel alloys, they make Ti look like child's play.
 
In regards to galvanic corrosion, or dissimilar metal corrosion, it is a very real thing. I agree that it's odd to use a graphite-based anti sieze when assembling dissimilar metal barrel/action joints, but interestingly enough, the FAA, in all their infinite wisdom, specifies a graphite based anti-sieze for the installation of spark plugs in reciprocating aircraft engines.
 
NOW, if you're talking Inconel or Waspalloy or any of the super high nickel alloys, they make Ti look like child's play.
Based on my experience with machinists who said "sure, no problem" to Inconel parts and then delivered scrap, I can only imagine how not-straight the raceway would be in most Inconel receivers.
 
While I might consider a Titanium action, I would not get a Titanium bolt. I would worry about galling the lugs the minute the coating wore through. Am I thinking correctly or way off base?

Paul
 
I am curious if the wear from the bolt lugs on the receiver lugs is higher for a Titanium action because the Titanium metal is softer than steel or stainless? I am thinking of buying a Titanium action for an F-TR rifle and curious about this due to the high rate of shooting.
Looking at the chemical and mechanical property specs, it appears that the Titanium being used is around 38 RC hardness at it’s ideal strength level.

That is about what most manufacturers set the RC hardness of typical Chrome Moly actions.
 

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