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Titanium Actions -- Comments Wanted

Phil

Gold $$ Contributor
I`m considering a titanium action / carbon stock combo for a light weight coyote gun.

What, if any, problems might i run into using this as a switch barrel rig????

It would be a .22-243 AI / 6.5 SAUM switch barrel......

Looking for opinions from people with experience with Ti. actions.

Thanks,

Phil.
 
Dissimilar metals can have issues .
I know that my titanium framed 1911 and SS slide did not like each other :( as in electrolysis
John H.
 
I'm building a Pierce 280AI Titanium at this time. I would highly recommend a Balzer PVD coating of the receiver. Titanium is grabby.
Brown Precision will do an 18oz kevlar & carbon fiber stock.
 
I do not have experience with titanium actions, but I have experience with threaded joints using titanium. Obviously you will not have a titanium/titanium joint in your switch barrel application (fortunately, because Ti/Ti is the most galling prone combination we ever tested) but regardless of the barrel material you choose, we highly recommend using a quality graphite based anti-seize compound when assembling the barrel to the action, and re-coat it every time barrels are switched.
 
Phil,
I have seen a couple that they have done. The owners picked the color. I have not checked color availability. I know some like cerrokote, but I'm more interested in better protection for a somewhat expensive and hard used hunting rifle. I hope to finish chambering my barrel today.
 
Butch,

I too am more interested in the benefits of protection than color, i just wondered if you didn`t have any choice in the matter.....

I looked around their web page and didn`t see anything about colors, so i thought i`d ask.

Please post a picture of your action when you get the "coating" done and let me know if you find anything out about the "color options".

Have you gotten a price to coat a rifle action???

Phil.
 
Phil,
Stuart Satterlie recommended them. He manufactures Mauser receivers in Ti. www.satterleearms.com I handled the one that Stu built for Chris Sales, Dallas Heym dealer, and it was so smooth. Another friend had his done on a Winchester Mod70 and it was very smooth. I need to contact Balzers. Satterlie gave me the contact and the person to talk to, but it is long lost.
 
I do not have experience with titanium actions, but I have experience with threaded joints using titanium. Obviously you will not have a titanium/titanium joint in your switch barrel application (fortunately, because Ti/Ti is the most galling prone combination we ever tested) but regardless of the barrel material you choose, we highly recommend using a quality graphite based anti-seize compound when assembling the barrel to the action, and re-coat it every time barrels are switched.
The electrical conductivity of graphite contributes to galvanic corrosion and electrolysis. This is why graphite is forbidden in the mil spec grease for AR barrel nuts.
Use a good antiseize WITHOUT graphite if you are screwing a steel barrel into a non steel action.
 
The electrical conductivity of graphite contributes to galvanic corrosion and electrolysis. This is why graphite is forbidden in the mil spec grease for AR barrel nuts.
Use a good antiseize WITHOUT graphite if you are screwing a steel barrel into a non steel action.
When I first got into BR 25 or so years ago I had a chance to buy a BR rifle built on a Gaulin Ti action. It was light and accurate but as stated above "grabby"...not as smooth as a SS action. Coating would be the ticket I would think.
 
The electrical conductivity of graphite contributes to galvanic corrosion and electrolysis. This is why graphite is forbidden in the mil spec grease for AR barrel nuts.
Use a good antiseize WITHOUT graphite if you are screwing a steel barrel into a non steel action.

This is undoubtedly true from a purely scientific standpoint, but I can say that galvanic corrosion due to these factors was never a problem with the thousands of mechanical joints on each of the submarines that I had fluid systems new construction design and life cycle maintenance engineering responsibility for over a period of 30 years. This in spite of the fact that it was generally a high humidity atmosphere much of the time. We even used certain graphite based compounds on threaded fasteners in joints outside the pressure hull in sewater exposed applications and never had those problems. For a military rifle I can see it, if one needs to be extra sure, as you have no control over environmental conditions during use and Soldiers and Marines get rained on a lot. For the average shooter, probably not a big consideration, but an antiseize compound using MoS2 (molybdenum disulfide) would certainly solve the problem, real or not, though finding it for sale at your local hardware store would definitely be a problem. And if you use an MoS2 based antiseize, make sure you reduce the applied torque considerably over that used with a graphite based compound - that stuff has a really low friction coefficient.
 
This is undoubtedly true from a purely scientific standpoint, but I can say that galvanic corrosion due to these factors was never a problem with the thousands of mechanical joints on each of the submarines that I had fluid systems new construction design and life cycle maintenance engineering responsibility for over a period of 30 years. This in spite of the fact that it was generally a high humidity atmosphere much of the time. We even used certain graphite based compounds on threaded fasteners in joints outside the pressure hull in sewater exposed applications and never had those problems. For a military rifle I can see it, if one needs to be extra sure, as you have no control over environmental conditions during use and Soldiers and Marines get rained on a lot. For the average shooter, probably not a big consideration, but an antiseize compound using MoS2 (molybdenum disulfide) would certainly solve the problem, real or not, though finding it for sale at your local hardware store would definitely be a problem. And if you use an MoS2 based antiseize, make sure you reduce the applied torque considerably over that used with a graphite based compound - that stuff has a really low friction coefficient.
Absolutely. The mos2 based Molykote I used for a fastener dry film antiseize dropped the k factor down to 0.1 from a nominal plain value of 0.18– a near halving of the required torque.
 
A Ti action only saves a few ounces over steel, a Rem 700 SA is 27oz and can be had on the cheap. I have a couple Ti actions and am happy with them but practically speaking they aren't worth the money to me. A Defiance Anti steel action is ~20oz in a medium, 22oz in long action. The other thing to consider is balance; with a really light stock and action the barrel becomes the heaviest part even if it is carbon. I have a couple XLR magnesium chassis with the CF butt that come in at 28oz and they take getting used to after shooting a gun in the 8lb range, you really have to pay attention to form for the lightweight guns.
 
Absolutely. The mos2 based Molykote I used for a fastener dry film antiseize dropped the k factor down to 0.1 from a nominal plain value of 0.18– a near halving of the required torque.
Definitely par for the course, and our experience, too.

A weird antiseize corrosion story that you might find interesting. NEVER use MoS2 based thread lubes in joints exposed to sea water in or traversing coastal waters and tidal estuaries (like harbors). We had a some equipment external to the pressure hull, and hence sea exposed, on our submarines that had to be taken apart and serviced every 18 months or something like that (not little ones either - they were inch or inch and a half), and whenever they had to be taken apart the nuts were corroded to the fasteners and had to be cut off and the bolts had to be replaced. The culprit was the MoS2 based thread lube. We did two things; we switched to Fel-Pro C5A on a hunch (manufacturer bought out I think, and called something else now), about 50% petroleum based carrier, and the rest colloidal copper and graphite, which cured the problem - break them loose and then twist them by hand. Armed with that experience, the second thing we did was put an experienced marine biologist at a Navy lab to work on it, and she informed us that there are certain bacteria found in coastal waters and especially harbors that eat MoS2 for lunch, with the breakdown products of that consumption including molybdic and sulfuric acids. No wonder we had problems. But the switch to a graphite based antiseize, even in a constantly seawater exposed application, cured the problem.
 
We have our titanium receivers and stainless bolts both DLC coated. This really smooths them out and adds a grayish black finish. We are just getting our centerfire receivers running but have been building the CT700P 9mm and 45acp bolt actions on titanium receivers about a year now, the DLC holds up nicely.
 
We have our titanium receivers and stainless bolts both DLC coated. This really smooths them out and adds a grayish black finish. We are just getting our centerfire receivers running but have been building the CT700P 9mm and 45acp bolt actions on titanium receivers about a year now, the DLC holds up nicely.
 
We build a lot of Ti actions at Pierce Engineering. We really have them perfected. We offer them with both steel bolts and Ti bolts. Our short action Ti with steel bolt is 18.5oz complete with lug and our Ti Featherweight with both Titanium bolt and action is 15.9 oz complete with lug. The DLC, machining tolerances and fit, anti bind rail, and the roller bearing on our Ti bolts make these things run phenomenal. Our latest actions have all of these improvements and are top notch quality all the way around. Below is one of our full Ti Featherweight actions on the scale and a video of functioning one of our Ti actions. 3A45CBB5-EF3F-421F-8BFC-BC07DBF649A0.jpeg

 
We build a lot of Ti actions at Pierce Engineering. We really have them perfected. We offer them with both steel bolts and Ti bolts. Our short action Ti with steel bolt is 18.5oz complete with lug and our Ti Featherweight with both Titanium bolt and action is 15.9 oz complete with lug. The DLC, machining tolerances and fit, anti bind rail, and the roller bearing on our Ti bolts make these things run phenomenal. Our latest actions have all of these improvements and are top notch quality all the way around. Below is one of our full Ti Featherweight actions on the scale and a video of functioning one of our Ti actions. View attachment 1234318


If not proprietary, which Titanium alloy are you using?
 

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