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Titanium Actions- barrels getting loose???

Texas

Silver $$ Contributor
I was speaking with a reputable gun builder recently and was told something interesting. They do not like using titanium actions because they have seen barrels come loose despite being installed to proper torque specs. Apparently steel and titanium have different stretch when being fired and after a while the barrel isn't threaded tight into the action... Has anyone else ever heard of this issue?
Thanks
 
Well, after working in the aerospace industry for 30+ years, we had no serious issue with steel nuts and titanium bolts. You do NOT want to use a titanium nut if they ever were made for many reasons. We had a general practice of using a lubricant like cetyl alcohol which is a wax or drifilm lube tho.
 
Well, after working in the aerospace industry for 30+ years, we had no serious issue with steel nuts and titanium bolts. You do NOT want to use a titanium nut if they ever were made for many reasons. We had a general practice of using a lubricant like cetyl alcohol which is a wax or drifilm lube tho.

I have used a ton of swagelok titanium tubing fittings. We lubed the threads with what they call silver goop. Its a $500 little tube of silver flakes suspended in what appears to be a thick silicone or glycerine by the way it feels. Do you think the silver flakes locks the threads somehow? When you take them apart years later you can see the silver plating ironed on there
 
I have used a ton of swagelok titanium tubing fittings. We lubed the threads with what they call silver goop. Its a $500 little tube of silver flakes suspended in what appears to be a thick silicone or glycerine by the way it feels. Do you think the silver flakes locks the threads somehow? When you take them apart years later you can see the silver plating ironed on there
The silver is a high temp anti-seize. The high temp variety of aircraft nuts are plated with silver and are good to 800F, the low temp nuts were cadmium plated then dipped in a Moly based dry film and good to 450F.
 
As RW already pointed out, titanium joints with any metal use an anti-sieze compound (in aerospace systems). I also spent over 30+ years in Aerospace but specialized in supportability aspects of the design (think maintenace and repair of the systems). While the barrel interface could loosen over time, I believe the number of firing cycles and/or heat cycles should be fairly high. Maybe a competitive PRS shooter would shoot enough to see this but I believe the barrel may be toast before then. Definitely within the realm of possibility though.
 
I think the thermal expansion rate between ti and 400 stainless is pretty close, my machinerys handbook is a bit dated, but that would only really matter if they absorbed heat at the same rate. Ti muzzle brakes for example are well known for coming loose while steel brakes dont have that issue. I have never had an issue with a ti action coming loose and doubt you would, they dont get hot. Ti does stretch quite a bit more than steel under the same loads, premature heavy bolt lift on larger case heads may be an issue.
 
OK Alex, I looked it up. The 16 in/in-degF that Evan quoted and I remembered is for 316. Titanium is actually 9 but austenitic stainless steel and titanium have a problem together in thermal cycling apps.

However, 400 series stainless (barrels) have a CTE of only 10, so 410/416 and Titanium shouldn't be a problem.

--Jerry
 
If they heat at the same rate. Im not sure rate of thermal conductivity would desribe how quickly a material gets hots when heat is applied, but thats what Im talking about. Copper or iron are great conductors but take time to heat up, Im betting TI will gets hot faster than steel and may explain why the brakes loosen up.
 
I saw a barrel come loose on a Ti action while shooting. Suddenly the rifle started shooting like a shotgun. Noticed the brake was canted and thought it had come loose but it was the barrel. The brake had just been installed so not sure if the barrel had been not properly installed or had come loose.
 
Stainless has Thermal conductivity of 14-16, Titanium 22 and carbon steel 43. So stainless steel vs carbon steel would have a bigger problem than titanium vs carbon steel.
Like I said, I dont know if thats what describes how fast a material absorbs heat or not. Maybe the issue is not even heat related. Either way Ti brakes do have a tenancy to come loose and a lot of guys have to use a thread locker on them.
 
It doens't get that hot. Zero divided or multiplied by zero is zero. Find the equation and solve for x Bhagwhan has spoken.
 
I spoke to Borden about this issue. He did mention that you get sticky bolt lift more often with titanium actions. He said it's because the titanium stretches under pressure more than steel. The brass of course stretches with it but doesn't spring back. Hence the sticky bolt lift. I think I'll stick with a steel action and carry the extra few ounces. Doesn't seem a worthy a trade off to me.
 
Grade 5 titanium has a youngs modulus around 16.5 ksi, whereas 416 sits at 30 ksi. So titanium is almost twice as stretchy. I'm interested in how that plays out on bolt thrust though. My thought was that the brass seals to the chamber and is largely self supporting, putting minimal force on the bolt. If that is true, then a titanium action wouldn't really let the brass grow more because the forces are so low.
 
Here's a theory: barrel gets hot, expands, stretches the softer titanium ever so slightly, then cools and contracts. Over time this both expands and work hardens the Ti threads until the fitment is loose.
 
I hear a lot of conjecture here. I have a friend who has a custom hunting rifle built on a Remington titanium action. He has had it for a number of years, and shot it a lot, with no problems at all. It is his favorite, go to rifle. I admit to skimming. Did someone who posted say that he actually has such an action and experienced the problem?
 

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