Time for SS Tumbling?

[DngBat7]

So is it impractical to pick and shake out 25 pieces of brass by hand?

I’m trying avoid another closet full of gadgets.

David

Unfortunately, yes. May be you should investigate the ultrasonic route. “Less stuff”. But I really don’t know anything about them.

 

[dgeesaman]

Unfortunately, yes. May be you should investigate the ultrasonic route. “Less stuff”. But I really don’t know anything about them.

I believe you but I’m curious why: do the wet chips stick to the brass, or is it fishing for brass within the media.

Anyway I have a harbor freight ultrasonic system and it works ok but the timing is crucial to avoid tarnishing the brass and it doesn’t fully clean up. Not to mention my very basic cleaner only runs for a few minutes and I have to run it several times. Maybe a better ultrasonic device is the fix, maybe not.

David

 

[Shooter13]

My process on cleaning & annealing brass is after every 3X fired. Does it make a difference on paper? The results of annealing frequency are very hard to measure. I have stayed with annealing every 3X fired. For me, it is too expensive to try and prove the best time to anneal....or is annealing frequency similar to tripping over a mouse turd?
Ben

I'm doing pretty much the same thing, I only ss tumble after 4-5 firings and I anneal every 2 firings, I have an amp so I think it is much easier and just as fast as using flame.

 

[DngBat7]

do the wet chips stick to the brass, or is it fishing for brass within the media.

When I dump in the frankford arsenal spinner for a few minutes, it completely separates brass from chips. Have had no issues. I hear from people how the pins get stuck in certain places in the brass, chips don’t seem to get stuck.

 

[Shooter13]

So is it impractical to pick and shake out 25 pieces of brass by hand?

I’m trying avoid another closet full of gadgets.

David

Have you got a brass tumbler? I use it for separating the ss media from the brass but be aware! not all the ss may come out and that is why I dry the brass and then spin it again in the tumbler, you may only get a few pieces but that is a few that won't go down the barrel! I use the FA magnet to pick up the ss out of the water.

 

[dgeesaman]

Have you got a brass tumbler? I use it for separating the ss media from the brass but be aware! not all the ss may come out and that is why I dry the brass and then spin it again in the tumbler, you may only get a few pieces but that is a few that won't go down the barrel! I use the FA magnet to pick up the ss out of the water.

I do not have any tumblers yet.

I was looking at the FA tumbler which has strainer caps on the drum for draining off the liquid.

 

[DngBat7]

I do not have any tumblers yet.

I was looking at the FA tumbler which has strainer caps on the drum for draining off the liquid.

Even the frankford arsenal lite tumbler is made for 300 pieces of 223. Obviously you can do less. But may still be to big for your amount you doing.

 

[Bill K]

I do not have any tumblers yet.

I was looking at the FA tumbler which has strainer caps on the drum for draining off the liquid.

As some have mentioned get the small Harbor Freight model for small loads, then some of the small SS media from Sleeping Giant Brass and you will be very happy, SGB media is small and does not stick in the cases and primer pockets like the longer SS media does. Check it out (Sleeping Giant Brass.com)

 

[jepp2]

I have no experience with SS tumbling and I'm now considering it.

I have the STM system shown in post 12. While I have tumbled a lot of brass in it and am very happy with it, here are some cautions:
1. This system is capable of tumbling 4 pounds of brass. When I put a very small amount of brass in, the case mouths get "beat up" more. Even when I have it full, there is enough case mouth damage I always run an inside chamfer tool in the case mouths.
2. The surface tension of the water tends to hold the pins in the case. And when I have tried to separate them by shaking them in the wash tub, it wasn't real effective. The spinning basket does a pretty good job of separating them.
3. It does remove all the carbon inside the case neck, so for my most accurate rifles, I don't SS tumble the brass very often.
4. I use the pins, but if starting over might use the chips. But I'm not sure. The pins do wind up in unusual places. I have never had a big spill, but some pins have gone through the garbage disposal and are found on the floor. And I have found them lodged in the case neck of .257 cases, and near the case head on Starline 223 brass. The chips would avoid this.
5. For drying I just toss the cases in my vibratory tumbler with corn cob media and some Nufinish car polish. Drys them in an hour and puts a protective coating on them (otherwise they will tarnish pretty quickly in some climates).

I do like the fact I don't have dry primer residue around (health hazard due to the lead). And for my range pick up brass and AR fired brass, it cleans up very well.

 

[Rick300]

So is it impractical to pick and shake out 25 pieces of brass by hand?

I’m trying avoid another closet full of gadgets.

David

For that amount of brass it wouldn't take much time at all - probably faster than getting all the other out stuff and putting it away again. Just rinse the drum out with clean water a couple of times (careful not to spill any media or brass) then dump into a half full 5 gallon bucket with a paint strainer. Reach in and shake them real good while under water. After drying visually inspect each case. Easy peasy.

 

[Ccrider]

Hard to see the benefit of SS considering the problem with pins hanging in the brass and the damage this can cause. Ultra sonic done correctly gets the brass squeaky clean inside and out. If you want shiny, throw them in walnut or corncob media for a few hours.

Shiny does not matter to me and I have concluded that squeaky clean and shiny does not make brass more accurate.

 

[msinc]

I have been using sts since it first came out many years ago and while there are some things you have to do and not do I am just not understanding some of these responses......
I have the Thumler's, I guess it's a model B...whichever one was supposed to be the correct one to tumble with sts pins. I have no experience with "cost effective" {translate to chinese schitt} tumblers, but if they are like the rest of the chinese schitt you buy these days you might want to just get a Thumler's and have one that will work for 20 years. At the end of the day, when you have spent enough to buy the Thumler's, you will still have chinese schitt.
I have never had an issue at all with running less than a full charge of brass, 20 or 200 the system works the same. I definitely do not find that you have to "size" down your tumbler, chinese or not, to clean a lesser amount of cases.
I have an RCBS separator and it works okay for doing a lot of cases, but I don't use it much any more. Not that it didn't work, but you still have to visually inspect every case for retained pins anyway {you will ruin a barrel if you don't}, so I find it just as easy to separate them by hand as I get them out of the tumbler. That way I've done my visual and did not remove a bunch of pins from the tumbler and have to loose more putting them back each time. Certainly for doing 25 at a time I would never bother with tumbling in a separator. What's it take??? 2 minutes???
As to the pins "beating the neck or mouth up" I am not seeing it. I hear people talk about it and maybe they use different pins than me. I have the ones sold by Midway. Speaking of which, they are magnetic enough to handle strays with a good magnet. I have also not had any issues with the necks being bare clean brass. Maybe some rifles are picky about this, tight chambers, etc., but a little lube on the bullet and it's been zero issues for me.
I don't sts clean every time I load and I don't care if my brass looks like jewelry as some ass clowns have suggested. I mainly use it on recently acquired once fired range brass to get it nice and clean to start with. i.e., no one would buy new Lapua or other high end brass and fire it once and sts clean it...
With the pins I use I definitely get 4 or 5 cases out of 200 with pins stuck pretty good in the flash holes. Maybe there is some new media that don't do this, but again, so you take a few seconds to knock them out?? You really have to do a visual on each case anyways or risk your barrel or decapping pin. The only other thing to really say is that you run the cases for the length of time it takes to get them clean enough for you and as to drying...I find that warming them up with a heat gun or hair dryer works fine, if you need to load right away blow them off with compressed air or rinse the water off in a vat of denatured alcohol. They will dry quickly. If you have time to wait for a dehydrator you probably ought to just wait until they air dry.
Somebody will be along to bawl about this post in 3....2....1......

 

[coldboreshot]

I have no experience with SS tumbling and I'm now considering it.

Right now I steel wool the outside of the necks, brush the inside of the necks, and brush the primer pockets. It's a bit time consuming but since I load in batches of 25, it's not too bad and I can go from start to finish without stopping. It seems to resolve everything except carbon building up inside the cases.

So I'm starting fresh and looking for a simple and fast way to handle SS tumbling. Batch size of 25 or 50 6BR and 6PPC. Equipment, media, process recommendations please.

I think what you are doing now is fine. Especially for 25-50 pieces. Its mostly about clean exteriors for the dies and clean primer pockets for the primers. I don't subscribe to the whole "must have carbon in the necks!" thing. I have experimented, side-by-side with both fired brass with carbon, fired brass tumbled clean, tumbled with dry lube and virgin brass on identical load data. There was absolutely no difference. I would think, if carbon in the necks is so imperative, why is it not utilized in factory ammo such as Fed GM Match, Lapua Match or any other consumer factory ammo for that matter. If you are a gadget guy...go for the tumbler. Just pay attention to the tumble time. The case mouth edges do get affected by the tumbling.
For me, no problem. I load my match ammo a bit on the warm side so I get a degree of brass movement that can be trimmed and rechamfered. If left unattended, tumbling effect can inerfere with bullet seating. Hope this helps.

 

[Poor Shot 65]

I don't anneal much as I load 223 for the most part. I do anneal 22/250 & 204R brass at times but not much and have no need for the AMP.

Maybe you need to try rinsing the brass better, or change your method of rinsing. I use the FA wet tumbler as well, (both large and mini), and started using the one in the link I posted. I do spin the basket a lot in water at varying speeds, stopping it suddenly and reversing directions frequently to get all the pins out.

Seems that the water tension holds the pins in some of the brass (while spinning them). After drying and prior to inserting the brass into the AMP I need to examine each piece of brass with a flashlight to make sure that no pins are hiding. Anyway its just something that I have run into more than one time and people should be careful.

 

[dgeesaman]

Thanks for your thoughts. As is usual, there is no controversy and everyone has the same experiences. LOL.

Anyway, here’s what I’m seeing:

• Small batches are possible.
• It does not need to be done often. (As it stands today I anneal every third firing and if anything, SS tumbling can be done less often than annealing)
  
• The SS chips are probably a better choice than pins based on how pins seem to hang up more often(?)
• Left over chips in brass are BAD. Always worth repeating.
• I would need to continue using dry lube especially on shiny brass. If not for necessity, at least for peace of mind. We don’t need to argue about carbon in necks.
• Mouth damage could happen. For me that means i will run the expander mandrel after tumbling. My 6BRA and 6PPC brass hardly grows so I won’t be able to rely on 3-way trimming the damage.
• If I used range pickup brass this would be a selling point but at my range the guys using Lapua brass never seem to leave it behind.
• For those who say cosmetics don’t matter, let’s not forget the safety element of inspecting dirty brass vs clean brass.
• I’m a gadget guy sometimes, but I’d rather not get one if my manual cleaning methods are equal in effectiveness and time. Only way to know is to try it and see.
  I definitely don’t like cheap tools for any application where I have a long term use.
• For drying I’m thinking about one of those brush like stands where I just place the brass upside down and let it drip and air dry.

Thanks, David

 

[rogina]

I have been using sts since it first came out many years ago and while there are some things you have to do and not do I am just not understanding some of these responses......
I have the Thumler's, I guess it's a model B...whichever one was supposed to be the correct one to tumble with sts pins. I have no experience with "cost effective" {translate to chinese schitt} tumblers, but if they are like the rest of the chinese schitt you buy these days you might want to just get a Thumler's and have one that will work for 20 years. At the end of the day, when you have spent enough to buy the Thumler's, you will still have chinese schitt.
I have never had an issue at all with running less than a full charge of brass, 20 or 200 the system works the same. I definitely do not find that you have to "size" down your tumbler, chinese or not, to clean a lesser amount of cases.
I have an RCBS separator and it works okay for doing a lot of cases, but I don't use it much any more. Not that it didn't work, but you still have to visually inspect every case for retained pins anyway {you will ruin a barrel if you don't}, so I find it just as easy to separate them by hand as I get them out of the tumbler. That way I've done my visual and did not remove a bunch of pins from the tumbler and have to loose more putting them back each time. Certainly for doing 25 at a time I would never bother with tumbling in a separator. What's it take??? 2 minutes???
As to the pins "beating the neck or mouth up" I am not seeing it. I hear people talk about it and maybe they use different pins than me. I have the ones sold by Midway. Speaking of which, they are magnetic enough to handle strays with a good magnet. I have also not had any issues with the necks being bare clean brass. Maybe some rifles are picky about this, tight chambers, etc., but a little lube on the bullet and it's been zero issues for me.
I don't sts clean every time I load and I don't care if my brass looks like jewelry as some ass clowns have suggested. I mainly use it on recently acquired once fired range brass to get it nice and clean to start with. i.e., no one would buy new Lapua or other high end brass and fire it once and sts clean it...
With the pins I use I definitely get 4 or 5 cases out of 200 with pins stuck pretty good in the flash holes. Maybe there is some new media that don't do this, but again, so you take a few seconds to knock them out?? You really have to do a visual on each case anyways or risk your barrel or decapping pin. The only other thing to really say is that you run the cases for the length of time it takes to get them clean enough for you and as to drying...I find that warming them up with a heat gun or hair dryer works fine, if you need to load right away blow them off with compressed air or rinse the water off in a vat of denatured alcohol. They will dry quickly. If you have time to wait for a dehydrator you probably ought to just wait until they air dry.
Somebody will be along to bawl about this post in 3....2....1......

I have been doing the same as you for 10 years. Thumbler Tumbler, if I tumble for more than an hour, it will peen the case mouths. I pick each case out of the pins and tap on the rubber. I have never had a pin stuck. Small size pins. I clean every 5 firings. Dog brass only. I do 200 at a time.

 

[msinc]

I have been doing the same as you for 10 years. Thumbler Tumbler, if I tumble for more than an hour, it will peen the case mouths. I pick each case out of the pins and tap on the rubber. I have never had a pin stuck. Small size pins. I clean every 5 firings. Dog brass only. I do 200 at a time.

Not saying it don't happen...enough people make the remarks about "peening" or otherwise damaging case mouths that I believe there must be something going on. What I am not getting is so what??? Mine don't do it, must be different pins, but even if they did I am going to take the dry cases and resize then trim and chamfer. Even if the case mouths appear to be beat up, surely resizing, trimming and chamfering will straighten out any issues.
The only thing I can think of other than different pins would be if some folks are resizing trimming and chamfering BEFORE cleaning. If that's the case, why would anyone want to run filthy dirty crud and sand infested cases thru their resize die??? Especially when they own a system that will clean them to bare brass. I mean, either the cases need tumbled or they don't why do all the work first risking damage to the resize die when you could be working on pristine clean brass????
I would very much love to see some photos of these gunched up destroyed case mouths. Seems no one wants to post. I have asked for this in the past several times. I don't know what the deal is, maybe we don't all reckon case mouth destruction the same???
I must have extremely soft pins or everyone else has very hard ones...you are saying if you run cases more than 1 hour they are damaged??? I routinely run mine 4 hours and I am unable to measure any dimensional changes at all. The guy that started out promoting this system says he had a 44 mag case he carefully measured and ran in every batch he did...some 50 odd batches later at 4 hours each he claims the case dimensions did not change. I haven't tried it myself, but at the rate of damage in one hour the case would cease to exist after four or five 4 hour cycles. I can say that isn't happening.

 

[Shooter13]

I do not have any tumblers yet.

I was looking at the FA tumbler which has strainer caps on the drum for draining off the liquid.

I have the FA and had it for about 3 years and still running strong! I purchased the Thom Tumbler and sent it back, it is very well made but for the price and convenience I'm sticking with the FA

 

[jpx2rk]

Based on my experience, and other comments on this forum and others I frequent, the peening appears to happen if you don't have a "full" load of brass for the tumbler you use. Or the mix/ratio of brass cases to SS pins is off, and you can end up with some peening. Time in the tumbler probably has some effect, but if you only run it for an hour, and are satisfied with the end results, what else matters.

I've gotten some peening when I ran a small number of brass to a full load of SS pins, while I did not get any peening when I ran the max capacity of brass to full load of SS pins (per mfr directions). I always check the condition of the chamfer when processing the brass, so it's not a big deal for me to touch up the necks after sizing.

 

[strat81]

For drying brass, a baking sheet and some time in the oven is easier for me than dealing with a dehydrator. Don't use your wife's good baking sheets!