Throw or Measure????

[JDMock]

With LT-32, I shoot short range BR with thrown charges. With my Dasher (Varget) in 600 yard competition, I weigh each charge. Good shooting...James

 

[BoydAllen]

If I had anywhere around here (that was reasonably convenient) to shoot longer distances, you can bet that I would be weighing charges for that application. As a matter of fact, for any of the powders like 4350 I have thrown and trickled for decades, the difference these days is that I have learned how to tune balance scales well enough that my most recent work will show one granule of Varget. As far at the time that I have spent on throwing goes, my reloading TV and computer room are all the same front bedroom, so I multitask, except for when I am actually charging cases with powder. At that point, the TV and computer are off. Most of my loading is at the range.

 

[smoooth]

No trophies here. I have found it to be faster to use a kitchen measuring spoon of the appropriate volume to rough-in a charge and then lightly tap in the last little bit or trickle. Call me cheap but this system works quite well for extruded powders. The Redding BR is then only used for ball powders; the right tool for the job.......

 

[KevinThomas]

Boyd's nailed it here. Short range BR and LR (BR, sling or F Class) are entirely different games, with very different requirements. Tony Boyer, and the vast majority of the rest of the BR world throw their charges. Weighing charges is a waste of time for them, as it simply doesn't make a discernible difference in their game. By the same token, it's tough (if not downright impossible) to find a truly successful LR shooter (in any of the disciplines I mentioned) who does not weigh meticulously their charges. In many crossover disciplines like Conventional High Power, a great many of us throw all of our charges for the short lines (200 and 300 yards) but still insist on weighing our 600 yard loads. Why? Because it makes no difference in our scores at the shorter lines, but we can absolutely detect an accuracy improvement (i.e., fewer flyers, reduced vertical dispersion) at the long line.

They're simply different games, and each have their own specific requirements.

 

[JDMock]

Kevin, not to be a a$$, but Larry Costa persuaded Tony to weigh his charges. He has done so for several years, using a balance beam scale rather than the Chargemaster. Tony loads in the upper window of 30+ grains of N133 and weighing seems to be the prudent thing to do. Good shooting....James

 

[johara1]

You can not agg. .3 at 1000 with the methods used at short range......That is how i started and you go home early...... jim

 

[thumper4fun]

Tony Boyer, and the vast majority of the rest of the BR world throw their charges. Weighing charges is a waste of time for them, as it simply doesn't make a discernible difference in their game.

In the last few short range matches I've been to I think the trend is changing. I saw just as many weighing as throwing, maybe more. RCBS chargemasters and other folks throwing and verifying on digital scales. Two years ago that wasn't the case in short range.

I'm not saying one is better than the other just sharing my observations. As I said before I weigh my charges on a digital scale for both short and mid-range matches. I'm just not consistent when it comes to throwing powder. That's a personal shortcoming and I choose to overcome it by using a digital scale.

 

[BoydAllen]

IMO, if one does not know for sure that he can throw 133 to tight tolerances, weighing, even for short range, is not a bad idea. 133 is very challenging to throw +- .1 grain. One of the advantages that the various lots of surplus 8208 have, including T powder, is that their grain shape and size make them much easier to throw accurately. This is also the case for LT32 and the newest 2015. Although less popular for short range benchrest, 322 Extreme, and Benchmark are also easier to throw accurately than 133.

 

[KevinThomas]

JDMock and Thumper,

My bad! I just took a glance at Tony's book again, and he does allude (somewhat vaguely) to using weighed charges. Not really clear about it, and mentions having used thrown charges for most of his shooting career. Still, his final line was "If the powder is very weight sensitive you have no choice but to weigh it." Haven't attended a full-blown BR match in a year or two, but I don't recall having seen anyone weighing charges at those matches. I assume this is something new, or at least fairly recent for a large percentage of shooters?

The differences aren't nearly as pronounced at the shorter yardages, but then again, they're talking about winners and loser being separated by a few thou in many cases. In the case I mentioned (my own competitive venues), I doubt I'll ever bother with weighed charges for the short lines. Unless I take out a mortgage, round up a Prometheus and mount it up on a Dillon like Tubb has!

 

[thumper4fun]

JHaven't attended a full-blown BR match in a year or two, but I don't recall having seen anyone weighing charges at those matches. I assume this is something new, or at least fairly recent for a large percentage of shooters?

No worries Kevin. I haven't been into BR shooting that long but when I first started all the short range shooters dropped charges from a thrower. But with the popularity of N133 (which Boyd has already addressed) more folks moved to scales. Actually I was glad to see the move to scales because I spent most of my time trying to figure out if I was a bad shooter or a bad powder thrower. Turns out it was both.

 

[KevinThomas]

Ah, but at least you have a good sense of humor about it! I take it that's a definite plus with BenchRest shooting. All too often the choice is merely to laugh or cry, and laughing is better for you.

 

[thumper4fun]

All too often the choice is merely to laugh or cry, and laughing is better for you.

Absolutely, I laugh when I feel like crying and do a lot of head scratching.....but one thing that never fails me is my Lapua brass.....