This Is the Creature That Won't Shoot

[CaptainMal]

Responded a couple times to people asking questions about 260AI and 5R rifling. Mentioned my latest difficulties with both. This is what that creature looks like.

It was a Sendaro in 25-06, timed and trued action, trigger, bedding and cryo'd barrel shot well. I had the barrel taken off, sold it to someone on here and bought this Krieger 5R. Set up in 260AI, braked (twice I might add), Forster dies made from the Pacific reamer, Lapua brass, Berger, Hornady, Nosler and Sierra 140's and lots of work to set this up. All I wanted was a 1/2 moa deer hunter for long range. NOT for target, with less than .001" run-out on cases, chamber and loads, it should be easy.

After 350 Rd's with this test scope (checked also as were mounts and everything else complicated and simple), this rifle shoots 2" groups @ 100 yards. Been there on seating depths. Been there on powder selections. Been there on run-out, case size, length, bullet weights etc. Simple stuff like primer change, crown, throat, bushing, case and throat necks etc. long measured, tested and addressed. 2 MOA.

I have a flintlock that might do that good if I could see better. Surely my 30-30 Marlin outshoots this thing. Last Monday I used a 338Win to embarrass this fancy rifle with silver-dollar groups compared to horizontal, vertical and unpatterened fliers.

Yes. It has shot some groups into that 1/2" range but they were not repeatable. Sometimes the next test would have it over 2" with the same load.

Going back to the builder again. He already examined it carefully and replaced my Holland brake with one of his. Now he's looking at barrel fouling issues with his borescope.

Not going to bother Krieger. Didn't bother McGowen with a bad barrel I got from them. The Krieger replacement was superb. Now maybe I should replace this Krieger 5R (latest and greatest) with a Shaw or McGowen???

Ironic if that happened.

 

[dansig]

Has anyone else tried shooting the gun, just to make sure it wasn't the trigger puller that weren't working properly ? ;D

 

[CaptainMal]

Yes.

Friend had something similar built at about the same time. For the past couple months he has been giving me his ammo to shoot in my gun and I give him some of mine. Sometimes we swap guns.

Think I shoot bug holes with his gun. Better than him. All ammo shoots in his. No ammo shoots in mine. Both rifles were made from the same reamer and probably one after the other. Our cases mike identical coming out and all is concentric. Both are 5 R, 8 twis,t Krieger Palma barrels. His is 30" and mine only 26". Otherwise they are quite alike.

Heh...Shooting my Krieger-barrelled Dasher tomorrow in a 1,000 yard match. If I place well it's the gun. Sometimes I do. If not, I'll blame it on that gun also. Either way it will be fun.

Thanks for the idea.

 

[ReedG]

There definitely is such a thing as a barrel that won't shoot, but it seems curious that it will plunk a few into 1/2" then back to 2". That seems to introduce a variable of some sort. You don't mention

... how times has your brass has been fired?
... has it been annealed?
... have you ever tried going to the range with only 10 pieces of brass and loading and shooting the same brass to see if there are still variables?
... have you re-torqued the action screws and scope base screws?
... when you get a good group, have you set that brass aside and reloaded it and still had a good group?

Other than that, I'm thinking you might have one of those expensive tomato stakes that we all get once in a while.

 

[JDMock]

Captainmal, if I were you, I would send the barrel to Krieger and tell them exactly what you stated here. Mr. Krieger does not want barrels like that in the hands of shooters. I am sure that he will see that you are satisfied. James

 

[Bob3700]

Did you try the putting the scope off your Dasher on this rifle?

If so, then pull the bbl and send back to Krieger. You have nothing to loose and everything to gain. Krieger is a good outfit to do business with.

I have never had a bad Krieger bbl, Only one that I spec'ed out incorrectly and they replaced it anyway. They didn't have to do that but they did.

Give them a chance, you may be glad you did.

Bob

 

[Buck 89]

Replace scope, should take care of the problem.

 

[stretch308]

I dont claim any vast knowledge ,most defiantly, but I do look at firearms issues as simply as possible. If case annealing causes 1.5 in variable in groups I might throw the gun/barrel through some vender's window. Anywatz if all connections r tight it sonds like the barrel and kriegermight want to know or the installer may want to check his work or verify free float.

 

[Dimwit Flathead]

Hmmmm . . . Maybe it's the Sendero action itself? I have one with a BRUX barrel, match chamber, tight neck, etc. doing the same thing. Did everything listed and get 1" or larger groups most of the time, a 1/2" group now and then, not repeatable. Have converted a LOT of money into noise with discouraging results. I hate to complain to my smith but I'm gonna have to call and see what he thinks.

 

[CaptainMal]

Lapua brass annealed maybe three times in 4 firings. Never tried to separate brass and use again to test a group. Cannot load at the range so my tests are every Monday, since December for about 350 rounds now. That Sendaro action has been "tuned" and worked well as a 25-06. The barrel was factory but removed, chryo'd, throated, braked and re-used.

That Millet is not my Nightforce , Leupolds or Burris scopes. On the 25-06 bbl it worked flawless for the past four years and seems flawless when checked with my collimeter. I keep it at 20X "just in case". Mounts have been changed once. All action screws torqued, retorqued, checked and given up on.

Three times I had "good" groups but that has only been three times and I think more luck. Immediately I duplicate for next week's session and it's a mess. Hornady SST's shoot best with most groups around 1 MOA but never much smaller. Couple times Nosler, Berger VLD, and Sierra shot 1/2 MOA but never more than a three shot group. Repeat always a mess. I did 195 seating depth tests with Bergers using a variety of loads with Rel 17, 4831, 4831SC and Hunter. Usually chronograph and record every shot. Many times the ES is less than 10fps but the groups are huge. Been varying primer types also and pulling out huge chunks of my hair.

Never did an Audette test. Doubt you could hit the paper past 300 yards without some kind of grouping pattern.

Have not given up yet. My other troubled gun was my Dasher. I endured over 500 rds of testing with that before giving up. Immediately others wanted that barrel. They got it when I gave it away. Two guys used it on their actions in disbelief. Think it ended up as a tomatoe stake. The replacement Krieger was in instant success.

POINT IS... Custom rifles with custom barrels for big money are NOT a guarantee things will be reasonable. Now an old Model 70 with BOSS IS reasonable. I own three of them and have five more in the hands of friends. ALL are beyond the wonderful. And remember - that was '90's junk.

Well I'm finding lots of 2012 junk in different packages. You never know.

 

[bozo699]

CaptainMal,
I have never had a bad barrel from Krieger but that doesn't mean one doesn't slip past QA once in a while, what is your twist? not what you were told it was but what is the twist? Have you verified the action are tight but not touching where there not suppose to? Scope rail screws? screws can be a very bad headache,..trigger, magazine, bolt handle,etc. touching the stock? This doesn't sound like a barrel or scope problem to me but more of a something is loose or touching or binding,...just my $.02 worth
Wayne.

 

[NateHaler]

unless you have already tried a different scope in different mounts, then that's my bet where your problem is. Even so, I won't have a brake on a rifle. Especially in that chambering.

 

[bozo699]

unless you have already tried a different scope in different mounts, then that's my bet where your problem is. Even so, I won't have a brake on a rifle. Especially in that chambering.

Nate,
I don't disagree with the first part of your statement but what is the second half or your statement based on, especially the especially in that chambering part? Are you saying a .260 would shoot reasonable with a brake but a .260AI wouldn't? please clarify as I don't understand.
Wayne.

 

[MrMajestic]

CM, if the sister gun is in your "Real" buddy's hands he would let you unscrew it from his and onto yours! That would prove out the barrel! JMHO ;D
For what its worth, I feel for you Brother.

 

[Jim See]

Not that this is whats wrong with your gun but it is worth a mention and a double check. I have seen a couple rifles that refused to consistently shoot have this problem when scope rails were mounted by the owner.

Actions that get a true and real "blueprint" have the reciever threads opened up. I have seen the very front scope base screw bottom out on the barrel threads that lie under that scope mount hole. This does two things; one it reduces or completely eliminates that screw from holding the base secure, and two it puts stress on the barrel tennon joint to the reciever that WILL cause severe accuracy degregation.

When mounting a scope base always put in the front screw only! wiggle the base the minute the screw shows resistance, with only that screw installed if the base rattles around your screw is hitting the thread tennon. remove it and grind to fit.

 

[.260 james]

I would double check rifling twist first. If that prove to be a 1-8 " twist I would saw the brake off and be sure the crown was true and square. You stated your loads shot out of your buddie's sister gun. I think any other problems should have shown themselves by now. A scope mount , issue should have been apparent pretty quick. I know of a couple of times were a wrong rate of twist barrel snuck out of krieger. I love my barrel , also a 1-8" twist 6.5, but it happens.