Thinking of selling my 260 rem AR10 and getting a savage FT/R... Thoughts?

[mao0720]

About a year ago now I put together a 260 rem on a DPMS LR308 receiver set. I was so excited to build this rifle and looked forward to making small holes on targets really far away. Just so you guys get an Idea, this is what went into the rifle. DPMS upper and Lower receiver, DPMS chrome bolt carrier, JP trigger, Blackhole weaponry 260 rem barrel 24", DPMS freefloat tube, AAC muzzle brake. After 500 rounds downt the tube, this rifle has become the most frustrating gun to shoot I have ever owned. To say I had some issues developing a load would be an understatement. I now shoot 130gr berger VLDs with reloader 17 in Nosler custom brass. My frustration comes from inconsistant accuracy. 2 range trips ago I put up several groups and 200 yds that were right at 1/2 MOA, which is quite good for this rifle, and perfectly acceptable for me. I went to the range again yesterday and my first group was good and about 1/2 moa, but then after that everything opened up and I could barely hold 1.5 moa. My cleaning regiment is the same and not too agressive, and I dont think this rifle has any issue shooting dirty. I dont think it is the shooter either because I laid down behind my Savage 10 tactical .308 yesterday too, and I put 10 rounds under an inch at 200 yds. Is it possible that this rifle is just difficult to drive accuratly compared to my Savage? Does that even make sense? Im really regretting not building a bolt action 260. Thinking of getting a Savage 12 target rifle, either the FT/R, Palma or Bench rest model in 308.
I know that this is mostly a rant, but I figured if anyone could point me in the right direction then it would be the users on here. Any thoughts are appreciated. Thanks.

 

[Shynloco]

Perhaps I'm not the best person to comment (because I happen to have NEVER found an AR that can outshoot any of my bolts guns) but I'll give you my take. It really all depends on what you are after and what floats your boat. I've had AR's, used them while in the military as well as in my law enforcement career. I've always found them to provide quantity and not necessarily the best accuracy. The quality side has been provided by my various caliber bolt guns and have some friends of mine experience much the same as you did. I have a Savage Model 12 Benchrest Rifle, but in 6mm, that puts incredible groups together and that's right out of the box. I'm told that the Savage 260 shoots extremely well out of the box though I've never fired one. To me, the difference (particularly the trigger) between the two style rifles is like night and day, even with the AR having a customize trigger. Perhaps I've gotten too comfortable in my old age which is why my sons are now proud owners of the AR's I once owned. Just my feelings.

 

[mao0720]

You very well may be correct. Ive been shooting AR15 for a long time now, built several myself and wanted a similar rifle for my 260 rem. The AR15 is much easier to build accurately than the AR10. I have several Ar15 with 16 in barrels that will shoot sub MOA to 300yds with a 4x scope. Im really regretting not building a bolt gun.
It just seems odd to me that on one outing I can shoot very well with my 260 AR10 on one outing, and on the next outing im struggling to keep 1.5 moa.

 

[Shynloco]

You very well may be correct. Ive been shooting AR15 for a long time now, built several myself and wanted a similar rifle for my 260 rem. The AR15 is much easier to build accurately than the AR10. I have several Ar15 with 16 in barrels that will shoot sub MOA to 300yds with a 4x scope. Im really regretting not building a bolt gun.
It just seems odd to me that on one outing I can shoot very well with my 260 AR10 on one outing, and on the next outing im struggling to keep 1.5 moa.

If I might add, don't get hung up on the "one day it shoots great and the other it doesn't." I've experienced that with several calibers and I believe there are variables that brings that about. Ambient temperature alone can make big differences in a loads' performance. I hate to say this, but we are human and therefore SOMETIMES that difference is on us and I'm speaking from years of experience full well knowing it ain't the loads or the rifle. Recreating a shoot sometimes is almost impossible, although consistency over time tells you you've found the ticket. So heck, if you have a bunch of AR's, why not build yourself a bolt gun? Like I said, I love 'em all and especially the accuracy a good set up can give you. Those five shot groups you can cover with a dime warm my little black heart. At the saem time, it pisses me off to no entent when a load that I know is good, doesn't perform well. Thats when I know I'm having a bad day and perhaps time to pack it in and go home and come back another time, hoping I'm in the groove.

 

[jonbearman]

I have tried the berger 130vlds and they are alittle squirrelly to me ,so I went to the sierra 120 matchkings and problem solved.Rl-17 isnt the best choice either as h4350 is the go to powder.I have had less than good results with rl-17 and other calibers love it.Vary temp and wind and everything else plays a big part in accuracy including our own state of mind.When you are shooting bad quit for the day and go another day when you are better rested.I have an ar-10 in .308 and it is very accurate in stock form.But I have good days and bad and it is really hard to point at the rifle for sure.Has anyone that is a better shot tried it after you had a bad day? I am not picking on you but my friend always starts having problems and says to me shoot a group,so I do and almost always outshoot him on any given day.

 

[effendude]

Like Jon says, try a different powder first. RL-17 is a tough powder to make work. Also VLD's may not be the best choice for the not-so-gentle path that a rounds takes from the mag to the chamber of an AR-10. My AR-10's shoot amazing right out of the box.
Good Luck,
Scott

 

[Quinc]

I think your problem is that you have a DMPS upper. If you would like to keep your AR and shoot well you need to go with someone like whiteoakprecision. I have an AR15 with one of there 26" uppers in 223/556 and am getting 3 shot 1" groups at 500 yards, and have done well with it out to 1k. You could probably make a huge improvement if you switched the barrel out with a Krieger too.

 

[mao0720]

I have tried 120smk, 140 amax, 107 smk, 139 smk and the 130 VLD's and 129 hornady sst give me the best accuracy. My rounds are loaded to mag length (i loaded to several longer lenghts up to jam but didn gain any accuracy) but I use a bob-sled 95% o the time, so no rough handling of the rounds before they chamber. I have tried othe powders as well, varget and 4350. I dont think the issue is with the load.
Again it's hard for me to say its me, because I shot my savage 10 .308 and put 10 rnds in .5 moa at 200 yds yesterday, right after shooting the ar10. So unless the two rifles require significantly different techniques to shoot, then I don't think the shooter is the big issue. I'm not trying to make excuses, maybe I am just having bad days and good days shooting this rifle. I by no means am a BR quality shooter, but I co sider myself pretty good.

 

[mao0720]

Last things im going to try before selling and starting over are to remove the muzzle brake- maybe barrel harmonics are an issue, and try a different scope- perhaps I am having some unseen issue with my optics, though nothing seems loose.

 

[people]

Shooting a bolt and a standard AR very well is almost easy. The AR-10’s are harder to consistently shoot well. They are big and heavy but can be shot well. You have to do the same thing that works every time. Once you get it down they can be hammers. Now I love going to the range right before deer season to make the hunters look like idiots.

 

[MrMajestic]

Barrels, bullets and bedding, 3 B's of accuracy. You can rule out bedding with your setup. VLD's are finicky sometimes but you have tried other. Leaves the barrel if mounts and scope are okay. That are easy to swap with known unit. Sounds like you are on the right path, don't give up. It sounds like a very nice rig! I run a Colt lower, DPMS lo-pro upper, Les Baer .264 LBC AR barrel, clamp on gas block(Per Whitley), Jewel trigger, Magpul PRS stock, Ti firing pin in a good bolt( old age has me forgetting manufacturer, lol) with a Premier boosted Leupold on top and have no problems with 1/2 MOA all day, everyday.

 

[DCRYDER]

Quinc, how consistantly will your AR print 1" 3-shot groups at 500yds?

Almost too good to believe!!!!!!!

 

[seanhagerty]

If you think you will ever sell your AR, now is the time. You can get top dollar for it. Enough to get your Savage FTR and a fancy scope. Plus bullets powder and primers. Maybe even a new press.

AR's are going for top dollar right now, take advantage of the situation.

 

[Quinc]

Quinc, how consistantly will your AR print 1" 3-shot groups at 500yds?

Almost too good to believe!!!!!!!

Believe it! I even have a witness. We had been shooting at steel all day and my last three shots I decided to aim at a cardboard box we put up. If I do my part, take my time between shots and there is no wind I can do pretty well. I also shoot almost every weekend and do alot of dry firing. But the barrel/trigger plays a huge part in that. DMPS isn't a bad brand but its not known as a sub moa brand either..

 

[Jet]

Mao

I am very familiar with ARs. I own them and train GIs on them daily. Love the rifles, enjoy shooting them, and trust my life with them but when I want day in and day out accuracy, I'll go with a bolt gun everyday.

To address your specific issue, last August I wanted a 6.5 cal rifle for use at 600 yds+ and bought a Savage LRP in 260. I put it in a used Savage F Class stock. It is a very accurate rifle and keeps 139 Lap and 142 SMKs inside of .4 MOA.

Quinc may be getting 1" at 500 with his AR but you won't find an abundance of those rifles. An out of the box Savage will shoot inside MOA with minimal load development.

Good luck with your search.

Jet

 

[mao0720]

I know and Im starting to really wish I would have picked up a Savage LRP or a Savage FT/R. Gonna go to the range again on Saturday and see what I can do. If its no good, this rifle is going up for sale.

 

[Quinc]

I know and Im starting to really wish I would have picked up a Savage LRP or a Savage FT/R. Gonna go to the range again on Saturday and see what I can do. If its no good, this rifle is going up for sale.

It might be worth a few hundred to pick up a nice Kreiger barrel that is professional done and not just stamped out as fast as they can make them. Also what trigger do you have?

 

[mao0720]

Trigger is A JP enterprise adjustable trigger. Probably should have gone with a Timney but oh well. As for the barrel, I may consider a new one. Kreigers are spendy though. Its funny the blackhole weapnry barrel on my 5.56 ar shoots great, so I figured that one on 260 would be just fine too.

 

[Bigame1]

How much do you want for your AR 10 in .260?

 

[noload]

My vote is for the SAVage 12, get it in the caliber you want, with the stock you want. Chances are the sav barrel will shoot just fine, then rebarrel with a Krieger, Bench mark, Shilen, there are many more.
I,ve got a couple savage 12 6mmbr LRPR and shot all the barrels listed. They all shot well. I got better as time went on so I can't say the custom barrels shot better than the original Sav barrel. Its a good way to go for longrange accuracy without killing the check acct. Leaves just enough money for a Night force 42. Think of it as a nice base gun. before you really start to through money at expensive rigs that might not shoot any better. I also have the more costly guns, but they don't really outshine the amazing groups Ive shot with those Savages. One of those amazing groups was 5 shots, .840" group @ 600yds prone with rest.. Pat