The Problem of Trying to Sell MADE IN USA

[hoz53]

I would love for someone to explain to me how a half blind guy can see better with an expensive scope. they are not corrective lenses. I cant even see the big E on top of the eye chart but I put my glasses on and have 20/20. a cheap or expensive scope makes no difference for me my glasses do

Well I’m no ophthalmologist so I don’t know why it is but I know that there is a difference because I can see it. My eyes have always been bad but when I was younger I could see the irons well when wearing my glasses or contacts. A lot of my life I refused to pay up for the higher priced optics as I thought it was a waste of money. The reticle on a cheap bushnell looked plenty clear to me. At this point over 60 that’s not the case anymore. I wouldn’t buy NFs if I didn’t need to.

 

[hoz53]

Leupold scopes are solid.

I think its us older guys with failing eyesight and bigger budgets that are driving the NF train. Nothing wrong with that. But not everyone needs a NF to see the target well.

i think you’re right about that.

 

[nakneker]

It’s a different time. I use to wear Danner boots, I use to buy Boyt canvas Gun cases, I’ve tried to buy American all my life. In today’s world that Is pretty hard to do which is sad. There are still some boots made here in America, they will run you 500+ and will last a long time buts that hard to do when you can buy good boots for half that. One of the prices we pay is a real lack of Ma and Pa shops, there are still a few but corporate America and doing everything we can to buy things in the cheap hasn’t helped.

I still buy a lot of Leupolds, they’ve done a good job trying to keep their products USA based and they offer vets a considerable discount program and that’s pretty cool.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

I really liked Broughton barrels. Some of my best were from them. They ran about $40 more than a Krieger. I bought a half dozen and sat on them for almost 2 years. Its tough to predict the market. The PRS world is driving the market now. The reason is they are willing to pay, and the companies that make products are in business to make money. I hate to see it because in many cases companies are cutting corners to make those products and meet a price point. As accuracy minded people we really should be supporting the companies that are still willing to do it right. You really do get what you pay for in many cases even if you cant tell the difference just by handling it.

 

[NC308]

Many times, it is the American worker, who runs business overseas. I started at Bethlehem Steel at 18 years old There were 32,000 employees there, at that time. What hurt the mill the most, was the benefits bargained for by the unions. Every time a contract was nearing expiration, the mills worked everyone overtime to build up a large inventory. Then at settlement, came the layoffs, as there was too much stock and the increase in wages and benefits drove the price of steel ever higher. I left the mill at 21 and became a police officer because I could count on being paid Ever week 52 weeks a year.

Many were getting 4 and 5 weeks vacation and every 5 years everyone got an extra 13 weeks vacation. Then there was the guaranteed wage. If you were laid off for any reason, the company had to pay the difference between unemployment and your hourly rate. After unemployment ended, the company then was forced to pay you 100%.

Maryland built a bridge, "The Key Bridge, which overlooked Sparrows Point. You could literally spit off the bridge and land on their property. It was cheaper to use Japanese steel than buy from the mill.

It was the United States that built their steel mills, which were more modern the ours and could make steel much cheaper. This was done after the 2nd world war.

We reap what we sow.

Well said sir! Well said!

 

[Knotwild]

Bottom line is that we all have the opportunity to speak with our wallets, but no one does - they just buy the deal - and some of us really have to buy the deals just to survive, much less equip our hobby. I strive to speak with my wallet even though it's only a few bucks. I just don't buy Chinese made scopes - period. I have some mid range Philippine scopes, a few Leupolds. I don't shop at Walmart, even online, because they like to assert themselves politically, which I don't agree with, so I'm not financing them with my purchases. You simply cannot believe the news and I believe it is all propaganda, so I canceled TV service, I don't spend with Amazon because they have been known to walk all over their vendors with price demands and I prefer the guy down the street get my money. I wonder how much Amazon made by people signing up for Prime for a few purchases and them forgetting to cancel it. I research before I buy and I will continue that.

 

[Steve Donlon]

We are humans with wants and desires living in an age of increasing populations and dwindling resources. Our growth is unsustainable. It's simple math. N0 one wants to not have children or do without. China tried and failed in a culture that would just shoot you if you disagreed. I'm 72 and went back to college at 50 and earned a Bachelor of Science in environmental science/ land use policy and public planning. I learned more than I wanted. I've been part of EIS ( environmental impact statements) for some national monuments to deal with growth and saw how our government handles growth. It's always to promote growth and income to the surrounding populations. With pressure from that areas Chamber of Commerce, City Council and all the business people that live there, the dollar is the bottom line. The NFS okays ski resorts in our National Forests with snow made from waste water against the citizens out cry because it will make money. It happened here in Flagstaff AZ. The people of Flagstaff, the Native Tribes were against it, the majority, but to no avail. Democracy did not work. Capitalism has made us born consumers. We pay poor people to have more kids, aka consumers. So that people that sell stuff can make more money to buy more stuff. I don't see how we can change this, war, famine, china virus. At some point some power beyond our control will intervene for the sake of our Earth, I hope. It seems all we can do is the best we can with honor. I don't know. Ignorance is bless. If some one has an answer, I would like to know.

 

[Rustytigwire]

Please keep in mind i try not to take the close in parking because someone else may have difficulty walking and appreciate the closer access. There are handicap spots but mostly used by those unqualified indifferent and self entitled (no placard). When I go to vote I look at the row of cars and wonder how many are willing to do what is best for everyone and how many vote to take care of number one and to heck with everyone else. It is so easy to take the short path but not always easy to do the right thing.

 

[SPQR70AD]

Well I’m no ophthalmologist so I don’t know why it is but I know that there is a difference because I can see it. My eyes have always been bad but when I was younger I could see the irons well when wearing my glasses or contacts. A lot of my life I refused to pay up for the higher priced optics as I thought it was a waste of money. The reticle on a cheap bushnell looked plenty clear to me. At this point over 60 that’s not the case anymore. I wouldn’t buy NFs if I didn’t need to.

I am 68 with 20-200 vision but with my glasses I shoot small groups with iron sites on my M1A and AR

 

[Michael Huebner]

Guys say they want to buy American between major purchases but then when it’s time to shop the market, it’s really just all about the best value that can be had.

That’s the main explanation for why our legacy gunmakers like Remington, Winchester and Colt struggled continuously and declared bankruptcy.

I don’t see a lot of discussion on the Forum about Leupold or see many at my matches. I personally think they are using patent litigation to try to acquire their rival Nightforce, dragging down both.

They tried litigation for 3yrs on patents and didn’t win. Called a heap of expert witnesses. Pretty sure one of the patents was the side focus
I was following it via docketbird and the judgement was a few months ago now

 

[Nature Boy]

All is not doom and gloom as it relates to manufacturing in the America. A few years ago I closed a factory in Denmark and moved it back to the US, along with 75 jobs.

When evaluating make vs. buy decisions, I find quite often that my costs to make in the US (when taking fixed overhead absorption into the equation) beats my landed costs from the usual "low labor rate" markets.

America has been and continues to be the world leader in efficiency of converting raw materials into finished good. Until a few years ago, it also had one of the highest corporate tax rates. This, as much as anything, drove business off shore. Now that those taxes have been reduced companies are coming back. Let's hope the results in November allow it to stay that way.

 

[Flouncer]

Midway, Grafs, Cabelas, but especially Amazon etc could very very easily include a selection window or whatever it's called to show source of product. Or a filter of some type. Just like thye do with other features. If these business wont provide this, if they continue to hide for the sake of money, then it should become a rule of law. Mods sent me a scary PM last time I suggested any sponsor of this web site could improve anything. I check the label at a store on everything. At least I can select Viet Nam over the Workers Paradise crap.

 

[Nick Caprinolo]

Been Thinking about this for a bit. Seems the problem is the trade treaties we have formed with the world and especially NAFTA. Our major industries have found that it is more profitable to build entire plants in South America and import them here, while Japan and Korean's major auto manufactures are building plants here. Cheap labor in other countries keeps cost down and the new plants built here are not bound by the standard wage structures already bargained for by the UAW. If a US auto maker builds a new plant here they are bound by contracts already in place.

Further, there are no more auto parts made in this country. You can't buy a new alternator or most other electrical parts made in the USA. We must find a method that takes away, the profit margin gained, by outsourcing from outside our boarders.

Further, what is gained, if we become environmentally clean and other countries, pay no attention to it. We lose the jobs and still the world is being polluted. We shut down the coal industry. Not only did we lose hundreds of thousands of coal related jobs, but other countries picked up the added industrial jobs that depended on coal for their manufacturing. The steel industry depended heavily on coal in their manufacturing process. They were forced to install devices to output less pollution. This was costly and added to the cost of steel here.

We started this process many years ago. First we gave incentives to companies who built factories in 3rd world countries in order to build up their economies. Well how did that benefit us? Then we imported outsourced products with no tax. Wow, that really helped our bottom line. We even loaned these folks enough money at low rates to take our jobs away. Sooner or later we will crash and burn and become a 3rd world economy. No country can sustain the entitlements given here without going belly up. Won't be long before we will need a wheel barrow to haul enough cash just to buy a loaf of bread. that is if you can find a bakery.

Sorry for the long rant, once I get started on a subject it consumes me.

 

[davidjoe]

I was looking at some things in my office. Every single item below from Bowers & Wilkins speakers, to Thuya burl carving to this I-Phone, PRC made, not just big box store consumables, and with things like models be it Exoto on down, literally no other source exists.

 

[urbanrifleman]

Another thing that I noticed trying to set up my store was when I approached made in USA product companies to become a dealer they were only selling a few dollars below their own online prices including Amazon to dealers. Many if not all of the made in USA products that I tried to acquire have their own online store and they really have no interest in dealerships.

 

[dgeesaman]

Jobs and products left this country for the sake
of increased profits.

There is blame on both the corporations and consumers. Consumers don’t buy quality, more than before we buy junk and don’t flinch at buying /replacing items every year or two.

Now the corporations and regulations that govern them make it very difficult to be a thoughtful consumer. Raw material, part manufacturing, assembly, etc are separate things but we are still asking for “made in”. We should have access to know all three things.

David

 

[Downeast]

When I was a kid Japan was the China of the day as far as cheap manufactured goods. Now it is China. You rarely ever see anything made in Japan anymore and if you do it is usually top end stuff. We make basically nothing. Even our vehicles are made, or parts of, in Canada and Mexico.

 

[Sirshredalot]

Seems like, not only for better profit margins, but also the demands of Unions and the government for higher wages, taxes, etc. caused the majority of companies to leave the USA and go off shore. It will be a long time, if ever, that companies come back and produce products, as they did prior to around the end of WWII, in the USA.

Late to the party here, but unions barely exist anymore...and they usually dont get you wages.

Public trading is what has killed america...always seeking a higher margin...a higher share price.

Why not invest your profits back into your own company and build your own foundation?
Companies seek fast growth and maximum profits rather than create a long term and sustainable endeavor.

Made in america is not dead by any means, just more diverse than just the firearm market...and yes..i bought a colt.

Materials are a crapshoot...where did that barstock come from? Electronics...no way.

Shred

 

[Rustytigwire]

The Hudson River EPA Cleanup is almost complete. Dredge up all the contaminated mud, de water it, concentrate it. Transport to Clean Harbors Environmrntal near Waynoka Oklahoma to be interred in a safe and secure long term dirt pit burial.
ON THE EDGE OF THE CIMARRON RIVER.
Now it can ruin another 1000 miles of waterway on its way to the ocean.
Why.

 

[ronsatspokane]

To find the perp we need only look in the nearest mirror.

If you shop based on price or value, you are to blame. Lowest cost wins. The very existence of Wall Mart is evidence of that. Value at a price point comes in second. Higher value at lower cost is something we all seek. A price race to the bottom squeezes producers to the point that they can no longer afford to produce.

If you have a 401k, IRA, Pension plan, Keogh plan, private investments or even a bank account, you are to blame. We all want returns on our investments be they increasing stock prices, higher dividends or interest. It is not a couple of big greedy investors who are the problem, it is millions upon millions of small investors demanding gains that put pressure on profitability. Goldman Sachs is managing the money in peoples retirement accounts. Russel is the largest pension fund investor in the world. That'd be your money demanding returns and putting the pressure on profitability.

If you are covered by a collective bargaining agreement, have ever jumped jobs for more money or even asked you boss for a raise, you are to blame. We all want Mo Money. Mo Money means higher cost of production. Higher production costs make meeting price point and profitability demands impossible at some point.

If you ever voted in a local, state or federal election, you are to blame. All these government agencies who make it impossible to do business in the US and who created one of the highest corporate tax rates in the world are your representatives. You voted for them. Perhaps more people should consider changing their vote like many did in the last election.

So, lets not get all high and mighty by pointing the finger at anyone other than the person staring back in that mirror.