The next level - - 223 or 6mm

[KMW 1954]

I have been shooting in an informal local rifle bench type league for the past two winters and have been using a 223, the only one using one, while most are using some form of 6mm, or 6.5. This year it has been a Savage Model 11 with a Savage Model 12 heavy Varmint 26" barrel Model 12 Target trigger and Boyds At-One Thumbhole stock. With this my scores have doubled over last years across the board.

Now I am also a relatively new rifle shooter and have been limited to just the 223, this is now my third. I will say I have learned a lot about precision shooting and reloading for it over these last two seasons and am now ready to make an upgrade or move for next years league.

My intention is to stay with the Savage action and either stay with the 223 and rebarrel with a Shilen with a faster twist, 7.5:1, to shoot the heavy bullets or moving all together to a 6BR.

This league is set up to be shot from a bench using a front bipod and rear bag. The distances are limited to 100/200/300yds and many of the targets are sub MOA for the distance and they are all X -Ring scored, they also change every week. So the question is do I Stay (223) or do I Go (6mm)? My friends are pushing me to move the 6mm but my heart is telling me Stay 223.

 

[X Count]

The 6br is better. Out to 300 yards probably not hugely better, especially on a 1moa score target, but still better.

If you have others close by willing to help you set up and develop loads, and that maybe have some experience with a 6br, go for it. Obviously the 6br has a 308 bolt face so you will be up for a replacement bolt head or a new action

 

[jpx2rk]

You don't mention glass, but would an upgrade there help or be warranted??? The upgraded glass could be moved over to the 6mm whenever that happens. Food for thought.

 

[Ggmac]

Dont go fast twist! ! You’re just asking for more torque and recoil, 2 things you dont want . You want a rifle to recoil straight back with little if any cheek weld .
The 6 ppc has dominated in the 100 , prior to that the 222 ( 223 will do the same if done correctly) .

 

[762plinker]

i would say, that unless you buy a single shot savage, do not buy another savage. the action design limits your possibilities. multiple entry level single shot actions with a decent bbl/chamber with lead to better scores/more fun. several are under 1000 us dollars....

 

[Dgd6mm]

What are the leaders shooting?

 

[762plinker]

What are the leaders shooting?

yes how custom can you go and still participate in the club match ?

 

[JB10]

I just put together a 6x45 on a savage axis action. I just found a load i like with w748 and 58gr vmax. So now i can play more with it. Im liking this cartridge. This powder was a little more finicky . N133 had good groups on several charge weights and 3 different bullets. I just have large amounds of w748.

 

[KMW 1954]

About this league. This is limited to 20 shooters, rifle must be a center fire and nothing larger than a 30cal.. Rifle make up is like this; I am the only one shooting a 223. There is 1. 243, 1. 7-08, 1. 30BR, 2. 308, 3. 6.5 and I believe the rest are some form of 6mm.

As for rifle particulars, anything goes. I again believe that I an shooting the least expensive, least custom. There are also about 6 shooters that also shoot PRS matches all summer. The top 8 shooters are routinely shooting 190/200 or better each week. My weekly average this year is 156/200.

My thinking is I am already well set up to load the 223 and can already apply much of what I've already learned and at the same time it is much more economical to. Then no new dies to purchase, no new hard to find brass or the mostly unavailable Varget that everyone seems to be using.

Two questions from responses above, Why the No Fast Twist? The heavier bullets such as 77gr, 80gr, 85gr will not shoot in a 9:1.. I can't even get 75gr bullets to shoot well and stabilize.
How am I limited to what I can do by using a Savage model 10 or Model 11 Action? All barrel makes will supply any barrel, Most even have Prefit.. Seems triggers and chassis are readily available for the Savage. Besides I already have 2 Savage actions.

Optic upgrade is already on the upgrade list as is a new barrel.

 

[jackieschmidt]

Are you allowed to use personal wind flags?

 

[KMW 1954]

Are you allowed to use personal wind flags?

Yes but what has that got to do with the question at hand?

 

[JSH]

300 yards max, I see little advantage to a bullet much over a 69 grain.
All of the At One stocks I have seen or laid hands on did little for me. IMHO you could stand to improve that with something that would ride the bags better.

 

[X Count]

If you gun can be pretty much unlimited weight I don't think torque is that much of a factor. Especially with small calibres like 224 and 6mm and if you have the option to run a muzzle brake.

6br with 8 twist running 105s of some variety and a muzzle brake and weight the gun up around 15 - 20lbs and you should be nailing it AND get a decent wind drift advantage over 68gr bullets.

Same with a 223. For 300 I'd still run 75-80s with an 8 twist. Tuned well it will shoot 1" or better which is well under a 1moa target.

Get your hands on some else's "custom" action and compare it to your savage. Savage probably shoot very well for the money but a half decent custom action with be smooth to operate and dimensionally straight and square. Admittedly you'll probably get more accuracy gain from a good barrel, good bedding and correct calibre choice but good actions also help.

 

[rjtfroggy]

Why not switch to a 6x45 8 twist barrel, then there is no need for a bolt head change and they usually shoot like a laser. Forster sells the dies, and the Sierra 95 gr. SMK shoot extremely well.
Like you I tried to stay with my 223 but just couldn't get over the hump went to 6br then 30br and decided it was the Savage not the caliber, now I only shoot customs, much better scores. Equipment does matter.

 

[DaveTooley]

Out to 300 yds. accuracy is king. Look at the results of the Tack Driver match. 330 yds. The 6PPC pretty much rules against larger calibers shooting heavy bullets. Very accurate and a group of shooters who can read wind flags. It's shooting 65 +/-gr bullets. I'm not saying get a PPC but as I said accuracy is king. You can't cheat the wind. A no turn neck 6BR with a 1-12 twist barrel might be an option. 65-80 gr bullets shoot well.

 

[bucweet]

I did the change from the 223 to 6.5x47 with a savage model 111
Easy to change the bolt head in the savage ( I thick it's about $25 at Midway)
New barrel ( here's where you spend the money )
Good stock, get rid of the accu trigger
Give it to a good gunsmith
And you'll wonder why you struggled with the little bullets afterwards

 

[Dgd6mm]

300 yards max, I see little advantage to a bullet much over a 69 grain.
All of the At One stocks I have seen or laid hands on did little for me. IMHO you could stand to improve that with something that would ride the bags better.

KMW 1954 stated the match is set up using front bipod and rear bag.

 

[Dgd6mm]

So something like 11 shooters are shooting 6mm.

Why not switch to a 6x45 8 twist barrel, then there is no need for a bolt head change and they usually shoot like a laser. Forster sells the dies, and the Sierra 95 gr. SMK shoot extremely well.
Like you I tried to stay with my 223 but just couldn't get over the hump went to 6br then 30br and decided it was the Savage not the caliber, now I only shoot customs, much better scores. Equipment does matter.

I agree with mostly what rjtfroggy says, except for ditching the Savage action, for now. You are not going to be able to change to a different cartridge without spending some $$ on equipment. Can you be competitive with a .223? I think so but it will take the right combination. So why not stack the deck in your favor?
If I was going to the 300 yard line to shoot against other shooters running something more capable, like F Open compared to FTR, I'd leave my .223 at home and shoot my 6br.

 

[rjtfroggy]

So something like 11 shooters are shooting 6mm.

I agree with mostly what rjtfroggy says, except for ditching the Savage action, for now. You are not going to be able to change to a different cartridge without spending some $$ on equipment. Can you be competitive with a .223? I think so but it will take the right combination. So why not stack the deck in your favor?
If I was going to the 300 yard line to shoot against other shooters running something more capable, like F Open compared to FTR, I'd leave my .223 at home and shoot my 6br.

I didn't say to get rid of the Savage , It took me 8-9 years to do it and umpteen hundreds of dollars. It was or I was competitive just could not get over the hump, so I went to a custom build and did much better score wise.
Now the limiting factor is wholey on me.

 

[Dgd6mm]

My bad...... my words not yours and I didn't mean to imply that if I did, I apologize.
BUT I would eventually set it aside if I thought it was holding ME back.