The "hold"

[Dlewis89]

Well, to make a long story short, I'm still figuring a few things out in the shooting world.. Trying to take in as much knowledge as I can and use what works. Today I found my hunting rifle doesn't like the whole, "free recoil" thing. It's a 6.5x55, 123gr nosler cc over aa4064 at 39gr. It's a short barrel 18.5", I put this together over night (no load up testing other than this zeroing) for a hunting trip I'm taking in November. Left is one of two groups taken at free recoil, or cross arm hold with no forend hold. I've been told by many shooters free recoil is best as it gives no influence by you when shooting. The other group is holding at the forend with a nice tight into the shoulder pocket grip, these 2 groups I shot this way closed up groups by over 75%! Is there a way to tell what rifles will free recoil better? I'm assuming it's either caliber or weight that helps, this rifle will jump when fired vs my 243 bbl in a choate tactical stock which has virtually zero movement when shooting under 90gr bullets. My hunting rifle is a type 38 arisaka sporter rechambered and refitted, so don't hold those groups to too high of a standard. 300yrd max deer gun and it's just fine for that. I'm new to the whole "tight groups" thing and just want to get better but having issues holding one rifle to the next and findings what's comfortable vs what's right..

 

[cheek9075]

Like always, let the rifle tell you what it likes. I have some that require a hold and other that I shoot free recoil. All depends on what the rifle is telling you it likes. Just like powder and bullets, some will shoot "x bullet and x powder". Others will not.

Just my 2 cents but looking at the target it looks like you need to hold the rifle.

 

[mike mccormick]

If it is to be a hunting rifle, IMO, shoot it as you would when hunting. The POI will be different.

 

[Adam in WI]

Lots of opinions on this, so here's mine.
A hunting rifle should be zeroed, tested, and practiced with both hands on the rifle held in as close a fashion as possible to how it'll be held in the field. You should be in control of it fully. Support hand between the fore end and your rest, otherwise it can very likely bounce and affect point of impact.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

If somebody tells you a rifle likes free recoil they must be talking about a full blown br type rifle that tracks in fitted sandbags with a less than 2oz trigger. If it doesnt fit this description its not going to shoot its best free recoil on 99% of its groups

 

[Tommie]

If somebody tells you a rifle likes free recoil they must be talking about a full blown br type rifle that tracks in fitted sandbags with a less than 2oz trigger. If it doesnt fit this description its not going to shoot its best free recoil on 99% of its groups

Absolutely

 

[Kracken McGraw]

Another option on hunt type rifle is to pull rifle into shoulder with trigger hand, and to cup other hand over scope at front mount to hold it down on bags or bipod.

 

[BoydAllen]

If somebody tells you a rifle likes free recoil they must be talking about a full blown br type rifle that tracks in fitted sandbags with a less than 2oz trigger. If it doesnt fit this description its not going to shoot its best free recoil on 99% of its groups

Absolutely

 

[BoydAllen]

The correct way to shoot a particular rifle is measured on the target. What ever gives the smallest groups with the same load is the correct way to shoot that rifle. I am always amused when I see people talking about shooting free with some sort of hunting stock, and a trigger pull weight that is measured at over about four ounces. To be shot free, a rifle has to have the right stock, trigger, rest, balance, and weight to case and bullet size ratio. Even if it has all of these things, it may give better results with some other shooting style.

 

[dolek]

Unless you are going to hunt " Free Recoil " I would abandon trying that style all together . A 6.5 x 55mm with a 18.5" barrel is going to jump when shooting at the bench , for testing you may want to lay your wrist/hand over the scope at the front rings to hold it down . After you find a load then you can start shooting it hunting style . I have been down the path you are on many many times . Looking back I have wasted a lot of time,money, and barrel life trying to make a hunting rifle perform like a designated Bench gun . Good luck with it,let us know what works in the end.

 

[edwardware]

Hold That Forend. Heresy, I know.

My M70 .375H&H laughs at you if mention the cross arm position.

 

[Dlewis89]

Thanks everyone for the input. Yes this isn't a bench gun, the forend hold seemed to do the trick tightening the group. Where I hunt is private land, and we sit on a nice ledge over looking a small patch of field so I usually lay a bag down, lay down and plop the front of the rifle atop the bag and wait. I rarely ever fire off the hand or any other position as I shake a bit, which is probably something I have to fix.

So hold that forend! Check!

 

[FeMan]

Lighter weight rifles, especially in bigger calibers can be very sensitive to all the inputs your body gives them and a lot tougher to shoot accurately than heavy-weight match rifles. Find out what it likes (hands, shoulder, cheek, etc) and practice that feel. It sounds like you have it figured out on this one. Good luck on the hunt!!

 

[Fuj]

The Hoovers here In Pa. Have the hold thing down pat.
Should still be an article posted in the bulletin.....I tend
to do a good hold on most my rifles, and a good way to
check your heart rate.....

 

[outasite`08]

If somebody tells you a rifle likes free recoil they must be talking about a full blown br type rifle that tracks in fitted sandbags with a less than 2oz trigger. If it doesnt fit this description its not going to shoot its best free recoil on 99% of its groups

When you get scope eye, you`ll know real quick your rifle, didn`t like the way you held it. I HAD a Rem. 700 8mmMag that let me know it wanted to be held tighter. I called it `ole 3 stitch. Jeff

 

[rardoin]

^^^^ Yea....shooting 'free recoil' in a heavy recoiling sub 8lb hunting rifle isn't free at all......periorbital sutures placed in the ER are not free in the least. Pretty 'expensive recoil' IMO!

 

[lb-ft]

This article changed everything for me. I've read it thoroughly several times.

https://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/Hold+that+Forend.html

Controversial for sure.

Other things I've learned along the way:

-When shooting off a bipod, pay attention to the surface under the bipod feet. If the rifle feels like it's hopping, it is. Bipod on a hard surface or bench will ruin groups. For most consistent results, if i'm shooting off a bipod, I rest the feet on a sandbag.

-Looks pretty goofy but it works with heavy recoiling rifles (30-06, 338 Lapua, 7mm mag, countless others) to shoot off a bipod with one hand on the grip, one hand on the forend.

-Hand on forend should pull straight back. Reticle should not rise nor lower, and not move left nor right when hand on forend is pulling rifle back into shoulder.

-The greater the rifle recoil, the more pull I need on the forend to keep groups consistent and acceptable

Best of luck to you. Now go hold that forend!

 

[Field_2_Fork]

This article changed everything for me. I've read it thoroughly several times.

https://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/Hold+that+Forend.html

Controversial for sure.

Other things I've learned along the way:

-When shooting off a bipod, pay attention to the surface under the bipod feet. If the rifle feels like it's hopping, it is. Bipod on a hard surface or bench will ruin groups. For most consistent results, if i'm shooting off a bipod, I rest the feet on a sandbag.

-Looks pretty goofy but it works with heavy recoiling rifles (30-06, 338 Lapua, 7mm mag, countless others) to shoot off a bipod with one hand on the grip, one hand on the forend.

-Hand on forend should pull straight back. Reticle should not rise nor lower, and not move left nor right when hand on forend is pulling rifle back into shoulder.

-The greater the rifle recoil, the more pull I need on the forend to keep groups consistent and acceptable

Best of luck to you. Now go hold that forend!

I've read that article a couple times myself, and have started experimenting. My .30-06 seems to like a forearm hold, while a .243 heavy barrel shoots significantly better with only the trigger hand on it and 1-2" of space between my shoulder.

 

[Bc'z]

1st things 1st.
@Dlewis89 welcome to the forum.
I'm gonna go against the grain here.
I dont shoot fancy bench guns, all sporters.
I don't hold the forend what so ever.
Forend on rest weather it's my bald eagle, sandbags, bipod, or my hunting pack laying prone.
Left hand operates squeeze bag.
Right hand very light touch at grip, thumb beside stock not over the wrist, light cheek weld to stock.
My only exception is my 30-06, I draw it into shoulder a lil bit tighter with right hand, but still don't hold forend or any other part of the rifle unless firing off hand, or kneeling.
I'm also a believer you "CAN" shoot small groups with sporters quite regularly with practice.
So I say let it buck, and if you get hit in the head....
It only hurts for a lil while!

 

[Bc'z]

^^^^ Yea....shooting 'free recoil' in a heavy recoiling sub 8lb hunting rifle isn't free at all......periorbital sutures placed in the ER are not free in the least. Pretty 'expensive recoil' IMO!

She took it like a champ, me not so much!
1.5 hours away from where we topped off gas, 2 hours away from hospital.
She didn't mind the eye box when shooting at a buck with my 06', buck fever and all.
All she kept saying was " take my picture".
2 stitches on the inside, 6 outside.
She now shoots a 260.