The 6br for F-TR and Palma, an idea who's time has come?

[nosualc]

I'd rather see it where you'd have to work up to F-Class not just compete because it's the "easy", (I'll pay for that statement, but that's the way it's been descibed to me) entry level Competition that you can shoot with your P-Dog gun, or "Belly Benchrest" in shorts and no shoes.

I find your comment odd considering your sig says "F-Class high master"... ???

Rather than "easy", I think the word you're searching for is "accessible", and in my opinion this is why F-class is growing fast, and highpower is on the decline. If somebody wants to shoot with their deer or varmint rifle on a bipod in a speedo and flip-flops, I don't give a da**, as long as they're safe. More the merrier. It makes the sport attractive to people who already own a scoped rifle of moderate capability.

I have never once seen F-Class shooters look down their noses at sling-shooters, yet see the inverse at every turn. Why is that do you suppose?

-nosualc

 

[kelbro]

F-class, easy? Check the scores from the Bergers.

I'm just getting into it. I have F/TR rifles with bipods and F-Open rifles and a decent rest.

It's a little hot here four or five months a year for me to wear a leather jscket

 

[Steve Blair]

It's a little hot here four or five months a year for me to wear a leather jscket

[br]
It's said that Wyoming has two seasons, Winter and August. Southern Arizona has Summer and January. [br]
We can always tell when it hits 100°F in Phoenix, the Arizona plates magically appear in San Diego. [br]
Full disclosure: none of the above will keep me from driving there three times this year, and four for the next two years, to shoot on one of the finest ranges in the United States.

 

[broncman]

With the 233 & 308 being ballistic brethern, introducing any other non ballisticaly similar cartridge would just be assinine. If any other would be allowed then you would end up with F Open bipod class and F open front rest class.


My 2 cents anyway...

 

[Medic505]

This thread has been some fun reading. I shoot a .308 in F-TR. The first F match I shot was with a 6BR. Shot way over my head. When the next month rolled around and I went back with my .308, I was handed a real dose of reality. In the 3 short years of shooting F class, the learning curve has been really steep at times, but I've enjoyed every second of it. I've seen some amazing things and met some amazing people in those three years. Made some great friends and look forward to every match I get to shoot, not only for the shooting but for the chance to meet my fellow shooters.

It really doesn't matter if you shoot a 6 or a 7 or a 7.62, drag a fellow shooter to the range with you and help them get started in our sport. If not for Larry Bartholome, I would have never set foot on the line. The week of instruction at the F-Class school the NRA sponsored at TJC was priceless. Larry put on a heck of a class and going to the range and getting instruction from John Brewer and Jim Murphy was like getting to play golf with Arnold, Jack and Ben. It's a real shame that Whittington doesn't have a program to get new shooters started.


Dean Wheeler

 

[Hombre0321]

This thread has been some fun reading. I shoot a .308 in F-TR. The first F match I shot was with a 6BR. Shot way over my head. When the next month rolled around and I went back with my .308, I was handed a real dose of reality. In the 3 short years of shooting F class, the learning curve has been really steep at times, but I've enjoyed every second of it. I've seen some amazing things and met some amazing people in those three years. Made some great friends and look forward to every match I get to shoot, not only for the shooting but for the chance to meet my fellow shooters.


It really doesn't matter if you shoot a 6 or a 7 or a 7.62, drag a fellow shooter to the range with you and help them get started in our sport. If not for Larry Bartholome, I would have never set foot on the line. The week of instruction at the F-Class school the NRA sponsored at TJC was priceless. Larry put on a heck of a class and going to the range and getting instruction from John Brewer and Jim Murphy was like getting to play golf with Arnold, Jack and Ben. It's a real shame that Whittington doesn't have a program to get new shooters started.


Dean Wheeler

Dean,
It is just great to see another shooter with that attitude, that is exactly what the shooting sports should be about. Your fellow Texan shooters are fortunate to have that attitude around...

Roland

 

[Lbart]

Dean,
Comparing Murphy, Brewer and I to Arnold, Jack and Ben is really making me feel even older than I am. When Murphy sees that he will be really put out as he is not a grand senior But thanks anyway.
A number of people from that class of eleven have done extremely well shooting competitively including yourself, William Whitman, and John Myers. Keep it up. You could win the Worlds in August if you put your mind to it. See you again soon I hope.
Larry

 

[SierraCJ5]

I'd rather see it where you'd have to work up to F-Class not just compete because it's the "easy", (I'll pay for that statement, but that's the way it's been descibed to me) entry level Competition that you can shoot with your P-Dog gun, or "Belly Benchrest" in shorts and no shoes.

I find your comment odd considering your sig says "F-Class high master"... ???

Rather than "easy", I think the word you're searching for is "accessible", and in my opinion this is why F-class is growing fast, and highpower is on the decline. If somebody wants to shoot with their deer or varmint rifle on a bipod in a speedo and flip-flops, I don't give a da**, as long as they're safe. More the merrier. It makes the sport attractive to people who already own a scoped rifle of moderate capability.

I have never once seen F-Class shooters look down their noses at sling-shooters, yet see the inverse at every turn. Why is that do you suppose?

-nosualc

I've been shooting F Class for about a year now. The funny thing is that I'd never seen anyone shoot a prone setup with a coat and sling until I started shooting F Class and now find myself interested in giving it a try. Yes, F Class is great for getting new people involved and in my case it may even lead to me trying the sling thing.

The animosity exhibited by some prone shooters on this board confounds me. I've never experienced it at our range and I don't understand its origin. You'd think all long range shooters would appreciate others wanting to participate and sustain the sport regardless whether they choose prone or F Class. ???

 

[Medic505]

I think I'm going to have to draw the line at speedos. The thought of some of the guys I shoot with in a speedo, well thats just not something I want to see. I have had my butt handed to me a couple of times by flip-flop and crock wearers, maybe step on their toes next time?

My 2 cents on the F vs Sling thing. I admire sling shooters. I only wish I had started this 30 years ago as I think sling shooters coming into F Class have a real advantage over newbies like myself. If my eyesight was better I'd love to try sling shooting, but for now I'll stay where I am.

My first exposure to sling shooters came by way of the F Class shool I attended. We were told before we went to the range at Whittington that we would be sharing range time with the Veterans Palma Team. My first thought? WOW! How cool is that. I couldn't wait to get a look at their "stuff" an maybe have a chance to talk to some of them.

When we got to the range we were pretty much herded away from the Palma Team, which was no big deal as I just wanted to shoot, We could talk later I guessed.

Then my relay went to the pits. At some point during the next relay, shooting was ceased and all targets were pulled down. That's when I heard, "Probably those F-bomb Fclassers. That's all they are good for, to F-bomb things up. Just a bunch of F-bomb ups". Those words had a sting to them that I struggled to get over. I've come to realize that not all sling shooters hold this attitude and there are some really nice guys that shoot sling.

But to the guy that so boldly let all us F-ups know, under no certain terms, what a thorn we were in his side, I'm waiting for you. I know who you are. I'm waiting for the day that you drag your Palma rifle to the line with a scope and bi-pod screwed on it. And it's going to come, you and I both know it is. And also I want you to know beforehand, all you will receive from this shooter is a "welcome to the dark side".

 

[ARIZONA_F_CLASS]

No! FTR is like stock car racing. The class was designed to try to keep the playing field equal!

 

[XTR]

F-TR is F-Target Rifle as defined in the international Confederation of Fullbore Rifle Associations (ICFRA). Take your case to the international level to get it changed. The World Championships are this yr at Raton. Can't imagine the impact of having a different set of US regulations. It already messes with the Palma guys who can shoot any bullet in US competition but have to shoot 155s if the match is shot under ICFRA rules.

I love that somewhere in this thread we had a response that highlighted the misconception that TR meant Tactical Rifle. We really need to keep in front of that.

 

[PALarson]

I for one would think that there should be some breakdown in the F class other than
F-tr and F open. Neither a 6br nor a 308 can compete with a 284 balistically. I am not sure but being that the 6mm has gained so much in popularity that it might be a good candidate for a sub class into itself. Obviously this is a discussion that could go on forever, probably best to leave it as is for now.
Paul Larson

 

[Steve Blair]

Neither a 6br nor a 308 can compete with a 284 balistically. I am not sure but being that the 6mm has gained so much in popularity that it might be a good candidate for a sub class into itself.
Paul Larson

[br]
Paul,

Respectfully, you could not be more wrong. Bring your .284 to a 300 yard match or to a 600 yard match on a reasonably calm day and I will put you to shame with my little 6BR Viper SS. The combination of low recoil and superb accuracy is almost unbeatable in Mid Range. I shoot a .284 Shehane in Long Range and I'm testing a .300 WSM because western ranges can be pretty tough in the wind at 1000. The 6BR is what it is and cannot usually compete at Long Range matches. Within its limitations, it's deadly.

 

[Hombre0321]

I think Sleepygator has hit the nail on the head. The 6br is a great cartridge for the Mid-Range matches, and does a fair job at 1,000 when the wind is good.

The simple thing however is if you think the .284 is the go to guy for F-Class build one of them. Changing the game by adding a special class just for "ANY" one cartridge would just be silly.

Roland

 

[mao0720]

I love that somewhere in this thread we had a response that highlighted the misconception that TR meant Tactical Rifle. We really need to keep in front of that.

That was my bad. But it is an easy misconception since the only two cartridges allowed are two NATO small arms rounds. Is it really such a terrible thing to think that a tactical rifle has a place on a match line? I'm not saying show up in full mall ninja gear with you plate carrier and MOLLE everything, but let's be honest FT/R is the most tactical of all of the sanctioned matches.

 

[Taildrag15X]

The sooner you stop saying tactical in the same sentence as F-Class, the better...

+1

Which is what said, most don't know the History of the Sport.....

 

[XTR]

Not every cambering can be competitive in every discipline. F class is a pretty sweet set up the way it is. One design, match race guys get to shoot 308s in TR from 1000. Both work from 600. The unlimited guys can shoot anything under .35 that they can ride for 60 shots for record w/o a brake. I made the comment once that TR was for masochists and open was for self gratification. In the end you're shooting at the same target as your competitors and your score may be higher in open but so is all the competition.

I'm a big fan of my 7-08, but it has no place in F class. It's not a TR gun and it's not up to scratch against the fat cases in open. A few yrs ago 6.5-284s we shown to be not able to play as well as the 7mm's. If you want to shoot Open get a 284 or a WSM and saddle up, or if you want to shoot TR get a 308. Mid range widens the field somewhat. Chambers that can't play from 1000 can do OK at 600, but in the end F class is really a 1000 yard game.

mao0720, I wasn't picking on you in particular. It's all to common a misconception, but what defines a "tactical" rifle? Camo stock and Badger bottom metal? (which describes my TR rifle) or maybe a 20" barrel and a brake? The "problem" as it were with calling it "tactical" is that it isn't, and people with the misconception show up and see 33" barrels and farm gate bipods and think there is something wrong, and then want to know why they can't run with a brake. Sure, it's fine to bring your short barreled 308 to the line at 1000 and give it a whirl. I shot my first yr with a 24" barrel, but I learned very quickly that if I was going to compete I needed to get a long barrel. What we do is target shooting, we shoot round paper targets on rectangular fields at known distances. Tactical is something else entirely.

 

[Down South]

I took this rifle to the FCNC at Raton last September. It has a McMillan A5 stock, technically in a "camo" pattern, so I guess it could be classified as a tactical-style rifle. However, I was told by one individual that it didn't look very "snipery" (LOL). I guess that's because it's actually a Target Rifle!

On a different note, way back in the early 1900s, the first true all "big-gun" battleships were built. They were well-armed and armored, but quite slow and had relatively poor maneuverability. Not long after, someone had the bright idea that a more lightly armored cruiser carrying the same caliber guns would be a great idea; much faster and more maneuverable, but with the same heavy weaponry. Thus the battle cruiser was born. It turned out to be a great idea, right up until the time everybody else had battle cruisers of their own, whereupon all the advantage was lost.

The same principle will most always be true in F-Class. No matter what caliber you're using, if it's an advantage, sooner or later everyone will be using it and the advantage will be gone. After that, it comes right back to shooting skills and wind reading ability as the major factors that separate one competitor from another. Proficiency in these skills will always trump whatever happens to be the latest "fashion" in caliber, and they will never go out of style.

Sweet looking rig, like the color.....

 

[mao0720]

I took this rifle to the FCNC at Raton last September. It has a McMillan A5 stock, technically in a "camo" pattern, so I guess it could be classified as a tactical-style rifle. However, I was told by one individual that it didn't look very "snipery" (LOL). I guess that's because it's actually a Target Rifle!

On a different note, way back in the early 1900s, the first true all "big-gun" battleships were built. They were well-armed and armored, but quite slow and had relatively poor maneuverability. Not long after, someone had the bright idea that a more lightly armored cruiser carrying the same caliber guns would be a great idea; much faster and more maneuverable, but with the same heavy weaponry. Thus the battle cruiser was born. It turned out to be a great idea, right up until the time everybody else had battle cruisers of their own, whereupon all the advantage was lost.

The same principle will most always be true in F-Class. No matter what caliber you're using, if it's an advantage, sooner or later everyone will be using it and the advantage will be gone. After that, it comes right back to shooting skills and wind reading ability as the major factors that separate one competitor from another. Proficiency in these skills will always trump whatever happens to be the latest "fashion" in caliber, and they will never go out of style.

Sweet looking rig, like the color.....

Me too. Similar to the color scheme I was thinking about doing on my FT/R rig when it get to me. But, I was thinking digital patern and leaving some of the grey laminate exposed in the camo shapes.

 

[Steve Blair]

Greg,
That looks like an excellent camo pattern for midwestern cities this week.