Testing 22lr ammo

[Tim s]

Tune your gun as best you can and then test with it .
Screwing with the tuner every group, you think, tells you what exactly ?
IMHO you can't reliably test anything below 50 deg or so

 

[Mikemontminy]

Tune your gun as best you can and then test with it .
Screwing with the tuner every group, you think, tells you what exactly ?
IMHO you can't reliably test anything below 50 deg or so

In the last test I was trying out different lot numbers of Eley match at different tuner settings. One batch shot well at each setting so I settled with that lot number and ordered a bunch. When It arrives I will be able to use it and try to tune the rifle. Hopefully the weather gets a little better around here and the temperature goes up.

 

[Tim s]

What I was trying to convey......you, maybe, want to test ammo with your rifle at it's best, i.e. Tuned. Tune it.......leave it alone......test ammo with it.

 

[linekin]

View attachment 1043885
I do have a Harrell’s tuner on the barrel but haven’t played around with it yet. I thought I would find the best grouping ammo with the least velocity spread first and then play with the tuner..

Yes, this^^^^,
Tim, what part of that didn't you understand? How in hell is he going to tune the gun with less than desirable ammo?
You've given some excellent advise but geez...
Keith

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

Yes, this^^^^,
Tim, what part of that didn't you understand? How in hell is he going to tune the gun with less than desirable ammo?
You've given some excellent advise but geez...
Keith

Keith, if the rifle is not tuned how is he going to find ammo worth tuning with ?
and that is the dilemma for most that are starting out trying to tune for the first time.
how to determine the ammo you are shooting is capable or worth using to tune with.
I suggest for first time tuners to shoot the rifle without a tuner and hopefully find some ammo that is consistent enough to use for tuning. another thing you will find out too is that the barrel on the rifle is capable of being tuned (unless it is a new rifle/barrel) I been down that road on older Anschutz's barrel damage made it impossible to find a tune.
a lot of things to consider for first time tuners.

 

[linekin]

Lee, I agree whole heartedly. And I feel like that's exactly what he's done. He's tested & chosen seemingly the best lot of what was bought. Now he can seriously sit down & truly tune the rifle. And now he'll have decent ammo in which to find tune with.
With some of the other lots I feel like any tune could have been an apparition.
Your way of removing the tuner has merit. Then you aren't inducing any error the tuner may be causing. You truly see what shoots best in the gun. Wish I had done that early on but I wasn't given that advice. Great tip!
I feel like Mike's going about it as best as any of us could given the cards he's ben dealt with. The weather & being a new to at least him, tuner.
Keith

 

[linekin]

Mike, now that you've found some ammo & are going to try & tune the rifle, Google The Hopewell Method. the info is there to adjust your tuner properly.
Keith

 

[USMCDOC]

Mike, now that you've found some ammo & are going to try & tune the rifle, Google The Hopewell Method. the info is there to adjust your tuner properly.
Keith

Preliminary Tuning: Don't worry about cross wind effects at this point as you are trying to tune the rifle to shoot with the least vertical stringing. It is best to do the testing in calm wind and definitely not in a head or tail wind.
Use the ammunition you plan on using in a match (measured and sorted). You cannot tune the rifle with one type of ammo (hi-velocity hunting) and expect good performance with another type (match grade target).
1. Set your tuner to "0" and fire two shots.
Turn tuner one complete revolution (25 clicks) and fire two shots at the same Point of Aim. Continue this until you reach "100". You now have a 10 shot group, all shot at the same POA.
2. Repeat step one from "100" to "200"
3. Repeat Step one from "200" to "300".
4. Repeat Step one from "300" to "400"
5. Repeat Step one from "400" to "500".
You now have five 10-shot groups.
If you notice the groups opening up vertically, finish the step you're on and move on to Intermediate Tuning.
One of the 10-shot groups will show the smallest vertical stringing.
You should have used only 50 rounds so far (or less).

Example: The "200" to "300" group shows the least vertical stringing.

Intermediate Tuning
6. Starting at "200", shoot 2 five-shot groups.
Shift to a different POA for each group.
7. Repeat at "225", "250", "275" and "300"
One of these settings will show the best average vertical group size.
You have used 100 (or less) rounds so far.

Example: Setting "250" showed the smallest average vertical group size.

Intermediate Tuning Part 2
8. Now, start at "240" and shoot a five shot group at "240", "245", "250", "255", "260".
One of these groups will show the least vertical stringing.
You have used 125 rounds (or less) so far.

Example: The "260" group shows the smallest vertical group.
In this example, shoot a 5 shot group at "265" to confirm that "260" is indeed the smallest vertically. OK - so you've confirmed that it is - go on to the next step.

Fine Tuning
9. Now, start at "257" and shoot a five shot group at "257", "259", "261" and "263"
One of these groups will show the least vertical stringing and is the "sweet" spot of your rifle barrel.
You have used a maximum of 145 rounds, (shorter versions are available on line).
If you have any doubts, start over at Step #6, and redo the testing.

As found on this page.. not using "google"! https://newbrunswick-benchrest.blogspot.com/2016/01/the-hopewell-method-of-barrel-tuning.html

 

[Tim s]

Yes, this^^^^,
Tim, what part of that didn't you understand? How in hell is he going to tune the gun with less than desirable ammo?
You've given some excellent advise but geez...
Keith

Well, it's kind of like, posting ridiculous stuff wthout reading it or understanding what it is you're responding to, before hitting the send button .
You're getting pretty good at it.
What is it about "as best you can" or "every group" seems difficult.

P.S. If you use E.S. As your primary ammo picking critera, you might want to visit over at the ELEY testing sight and bone up on some data.
P.P.S take note that in his first target image, his single best group on the whole sheet is a 16 fps spread.

 

[Intell]

Chicken or the egg. It can be a tough start with gun and ammo both unproven. You can't find the best ammo with a untuned gun, and you can't tune a gun with crap ammo. I wouldn't buy a case while twisting on the tuner. You would be ahead to remove the tuner and see what lot# it likes best bare,vs testing ammo untuned. Also don't forget the action screws, they matter as much as the fun twisty thingy on the end.

 

[Mikemontminy]

Chicken or the egg. It can be a tough start with gun and ammo both unproven. You can't find the best ammo with a untuned gun, and you can't tune a gun with crap ammo. I wouldn't buy a case while twisting on the tuner. You would be ahead to remove the tuner and see what lot# it likes best bare,vs testing ammo untuned. Also don't forget the action screws, they matter as much as the fun twisty thingy on the end.

Lots of great information here. One question on the action screw torque. Would playing around with different torque settings show anything on paper if the action has been pillar bedded? Still waiting on Eley Match order to come in so I can continue.

 

[USMCDOC]

Lots of great information here. One question on the action screw torque. Would playing around with different torque settings show anything on paper if the action has been pillar bedded? Still waiting on Eley Match order to come in so I can continue.

i am using 35 inch lbs as my standard.

 

[Tim s]

Lots of great information here. One question on the action screw torque. Would playing around with different torque settings show anything on paper if the action has been pillar bedded? Still waiting on Eley Match order to come in so I can continue.

Generally, if a few in lbs. Shows something on the target, you probably have a bedding issue.
Myself, I use 30 in lbs.
My primary gunsmith, builder of several world record guns and sporters, turns'em down with moderate pressure until they just stop.....does'nt even use a torque wrench.

 

[Intell]

Lots of great information here. One question on the action screw torque. Would playing around with different torque settings show anything on paper if the action has been pillar bedded? Still waiting on Eley Match order to come in so I can continue.

Like others said, with good bedding it shouldn't matter much. That said, with a new gun I always removed the tuner, so it had no influence and started shooting groups " using wind flag's" and started torque at 18 inch pounds, which I know to low and go up by two pounds between five shot groups then check out the results and retest a couple if needed. Mine usually ended up shooting best in the high 20s low 30s inch pound. Then I put the fun twisty thing on the end and finished up. Works for me, maybe not so much for others.

 

[Mikemontminy]

Ammo came in today and conditions were good. Temp at 55 to 60 degrees. I did the Hopewell method after cleaning the gun and firing 5 fowling shots. The top page I started with tuner set to 0.00 and fired 2 shots then increasing 1 full turn and firing 2 more and so on to get 10 shot groups. I thought 0 to 1.00 had less vertical so I tried two five shot groups every full revolution from tuner setting 0.00 to 1.00. Out of those I thought 0.25 and 0.50 looked good so I shot settings in between. I tried 0.30 and 0.45 twice. Out of those two I picked0.30. After looking at targets again setting 0.75 was overlooked so I guess I have more testing to do. When I finished up it was dark and I had to use a lite to illuminate my target so I could see. My wind flags weren’t visible then.

 

[Bart B.]

Would playing around with different torque settings show anything on paper if the action has been pillar bedded?

Yes, if everything's up to the task. Ammo, rifle and human.

When i shot rimfire prone matches, international team members said 20 to 25 in/lb is best for most rimfire actions for all bedding; full, pillar or none. My Annie 1911 prefers 22.

 

[Mikemontminy]

Tried a little more shooting today but can’t seem to narrow anything down between tuner setting 0.00 to 1.00 which seems to have the least amount of vertical. Shooting the same setting more than once gives me different results. I reposted yesterday’s target along with today’s adding vertical spread measurements highlighted in green.

 

[Tim s]

You can't narrow anything down because, again, you seem to make this way more complicated than it needs to be.
You can lead a horse to water......