Tested My New .223 With 90's Today

[FroggyOne2]

Today, I took out my new .223 for testing, first off, it is built on a Barnard P action with a Rock Creek 7.2 twist 30 inch barrel and resting in a Eliseo B1 stock. So I go to the range first to shoot a ladder test in increments of .1 grain. I had three apparent nodes, 23.3 - 23.4, 24.4 - 24.5 and 24.7 - 24.8 of Varget. So after shooting the ladder test, I went back to the house ( I only live 15 minutes away). This time I loaded up a series of each of the above numbers and head back out to the range. Once out there, a few friends were there and got a couple of them to pull targets.. the second one was the one I have chosen. The load is 24.5 grains of Varget with Lapua brass. The chamber is a Wylde chamber that has been throated correctly for Berger 90's to seat just above the neck/shoulder. The 90's were seated 10 thou into the lands, the brass is neck turned to clean them up and using Wolf SRM primers.

The nice thing is that shooting prone at 600, the 24.5 grains of Varget, all shots were in the X ring and elevation was 1/2 moa.. so I guess I am pleased with this and will use this load for the comming season.

The bad thing is, now that it is shooting, I am afraid of taking the barrled action out of the stock. I had ordered a new stock for it, but now I don't want to change anything, I guess the Palma barreled action will have to go in the new stock.. what a bummer..

 

[FroggyOne2]

Forgot to mention, that even at 24.8 grains of Varget, there were no signs of pressure, the primer were still rounded on the edge.. though it was just beginning to start, don't think that it would have taken too much more.

 

[Rtheurer]

Randy

Sounds like your ready for another season of midrange with your new tube on the gun. If you send me a Email I have some great 90gr info for you.

Which 90 are you using? VLD or BTHP

RussT

 

[FroggyOne2]

Russ,

I am using the Berger 90VLD. Not sure yet how fast they are going, but I have a feeling that they are somewhere in the 2850 range.

I will send you a message.. but my email is in my profile..

 

[FroggyOne2]

Oh and Russ,

Don't plan to shoot this rifle much in Mid Range, Palma course yes, I already have a Mid Range rifle. That "lil green gun" is the one. Oh by the way, I finally got that paper work from the NRA from the 2010 match.

 

[Rtheurer]

Do yo umean the 2011 State Cahmpionship? If so that is great news. NRA is very very slow on updating there National Records. There are some that have been broken and still show 2003..... And they where broke AT CAMP PERRY... where you would think they would have there poop together. Only 8 years or more behind.

RussT

 

[FroggyOne2]

Nope, the State Championship in Oct of 2010.. some times my lil fat fingers don't work to well with my brain..

 

[manitou210]

You might find you will have to back loads a little I shot Varget last year Barnard S with 1/7 twist TF 30" lapua brass primer pocket got loose after 3 firings
manitou

 

[FroggyOne2]

by the time I get 3-4 firings on the brass.. the barrel will be done. Just like, backing off a lil, I have heard that statement a few times before. As of right now, backing off a lil means taking the rifle out of it's accuracy node, kinda would defeat the purpose of trying to shoot accurately. Though, the first twenty pcs of brass will be tortured tested and I will know what I need to know.. and that is how many firings I will get out of the brass. Don't take me wrong, I do appreciate your words, unless it is toasting the brass on the first shot, I don't get too worried about it.

 

[hogan]

Might want to try Reloader 15 as it is more traditional for .223 than is Varget.

I have about 200 JLK and 165 Sierra MK for sale if you aren't too committed to the Bergers.
Make you a deal if you can use all the bullets. All from same repective lots. Got these with a 6.5 twist
Pac-Nor service rifle upper I bought years ago and never found reason to load them.

 

[FroggyOne2]

Don't really want to use RL15 if I can help it, with the hot weather here in the south, the constant adjusting for the temp. It can be 95 degrees down here and then go to Camp Perry and it not get any warmer than 75 in the afternoon. So if you are using RL15, that much of a change in temps can make a difference in how well your load is going to work. I have seen it happen to me, having to reduce a load due to the temps and take it to Perry, only to see the load deminish in the cooler temps. The Varget load at this time appears to be working and hence I am not going to change anything.. I have seen Varget have a lil experience with temp changes, but the only time I have see that was when the temps were about 98 degrees, being out in the sun all day, with the ammo sitting the the shooting stool and there being no relief from any shade. It flattened the primers a lil, but I didn't experience hard bolt lift or anything. I can't say that for other powders that I have used. The groups that I shot was with virgin brass, I have not yet shot any with resized brass, but will be doing so this weekend.

 

[hogan]

Have you seen the article in the Winter 2008 Dominion Gun Club of Canada about 1000yd bolt rifle shooting with JLK & SMK? If not, google it and see the account which details 20rd groups with 2" vertical dispersion on average...

Most loads featured Vita-Vourhi powder, iirc. Very stellar performance and interesting article.

 

[Catfish]

I don`t see how you can get 2,850 with that heavy of bullet with a 223. I think your in for a big suprise when you put them through a crono.

 

[FroggyOne2]

Why do you say that?

 

[Longtrain]

I don`t see how you can get 2,850 with that heavy of bullet with a 223.

I never shot a 90, but 80 SMK's in my Tikka 595 with a 28" Hart barrel and 24.5 Varget averages 2901 over 15 shots, so maybe?

Tony

 

[FroggyOne2]

Well took it out again today and shot at 600 yards prone. Virgin brass and full length sized brass with .001 tension is working really good.. Most shot with an elevation of 1.5 inches, wasn't to much worried about how the windage when, just testing the best way to do the fired brass to keep it accurate. I will say this, neck sized and .002 of tension isn't going to get the job done!

 

[flatlander]

Froggy - Your set-up is very similar to what I'm using - 30", 1:7.2tw Bartlein 5R med. Palma on a Pierce TG action in an Eliseo R5. Chamber was cut with a PTG 223 Match reamer, then throated out .080" using a Lambeth/Kiff micro reamer stop. I started with N550, using R7-1/2 primers with both JLK & Berger 90VLDs; the initial charge gave 2840fps, but also a lot of primer cratering. CCI BR4s are tougher, but gave higher ES & Sds.

The real problem lies with a little too much clearance between the firing pin hole & firing pin tip; the bolt was sent back to Pierce for some remedial pin fitting. I had the same problem with 6BR loads in this action using the .473" bolt, but sent it off to Greg Tannel before checking with Pierce. This was a very early action (single digit ser.#); by the time I'd bought another TG action for an Elesio RTS, they'd remedied the FP fit. The 2nd action has a 6.5x47 bbl., and I've never seen any cratering, even with some pretty warm RL17/142MK loads.

At any rate, I'm looking forward to getting the 223 bolt back and getting back on this project. So far, have fired only a couple of 10 shot groups at 1000 - even though results were encouraging, there's room for improvement. Hopefully, my karma will allow for a few days with mild conditions that coincide with enough free time to get in some meaningful testing.

 

[Killshot]

For sure, I was running JLK 80s at 2,900 out of a 24" without stepping on the brass.

 

[FroggyOne2]

Dennis,

My other .223 is on a Remington action in a Eliseo stock as well, which I use the 75gr AMax in. I had Randy Gregory bush that firing pin because of the primer problem you were experiencing. That is something that I really reconmend to anyone. If your rifle is using a standard firing pin and you have not had it changed over to a small firing pin and have it bushed, you should do it, it is worth the effort. Never had a cratering problem with the Barnards. I am going to shoot it today at 1000 yards, it is supposed to be a lil on the cool side today with some wind. I am not going to worry too much about wind drift as much as watch the elevation. But with the way it is shooting at 600 yards, if all things are equal in dispersion, I believe that it will be fine at 1K.

I do want to say something here, I want to thank Mike Rock and the folks at Rock Creek Barrels for the fine barrel, they were nice enough to allow me to have this barrel without charge. I have been using Rock Creek Barrels for some years now and have had nothing but great results with them. Dennis, I think that your barrel is the same barrel that Jerry T. was using and the last report I saw from him was that he was getting fantastic results. Another thing that I have noticed is that all off the powder is getting burned up, there is no residue on the muzzle of the barrel.

The new stock should be here soon, I currently have this action in the stock that I use for the .308 palma gun. Also, Dennis, with your R5, you can put the R1 bottom on it, with the new loading ramp that Gary Eliseo designed and it, when you place the round in the port on the ramp, the round will go right into the chamber on your gun. As for the Barnard, well I have to make sure that it is in the chamber before closing the bolt. With the big bullet, it will not ride up out of the port into the chamber by just closing the bolt. This I feel is the only drawback, but what is good about it is that it forces you to have to shoot the rifle in the shoulder.

I have not run this load over a chrony yet, I have not really been concerned about velocity as much as verticle dispersion. After today, I should know about how fast it is going. I have a solid 600 yard zero on the rifle and the JBM says that if the bullet is running 2850 fps, that I will need 16.7 moa to be on at 1K. So that is what I will do and see where it hits paper.

One other thing, I don't shoot my .308 near as much now, I have too much fun shooting these .223's!

 

[TMiller]

Froggy, I have been reading your results and can say that with my .223 Palma gun, the results mirror yours almost exactly. I am running a Rem 700 with bushed firing pin hole, and a 30 inch Brux 7.7 twist, with PTG match chamber throated out to .135. My powder charges with Varget are within a tenth of a grain from yours, and the Berger 90Bt's run at 2853 FPS, and the 90 Berger VLD's are about 20 FPS faster. Elevation is great at 600 yards, but I have not shot them farther than that, yet. I have had the best luck with Wolf SRM's and CCI 450's for primers.