Tennessee Mid Range State Championship

[sailhertoo]

Due to a well-documented mix up, there were two F-class state LR championships this year in TN. At the first one at AEDC in May, awards/trophies were given for both the state resident winner and the overall winner. The gentlemen's agreement for next year is to have one state championship for LR f-class at AEDC in the spring of 2012 and again award trophies for both state and overall winner. That should alleviate the confusion from this year.

Thanks for clearing up the confusion. I shot the April 30th - May 1st Tullahoma match and later read about the 2nd LR State Championships. There are some excellent shooters in the area. I look forward to the results.

I wonder how it feels to be
"State Champian" and come in second place.

This is not right. At least the match winner should get a memorandum to hang on the wall.

ETA - I don't know if "memorandum" is the word but screw it.

 

[morpheus]

Sorry, but I have to respond to: I wonder how it feels to be "State Champian" and come in second place.

At the TN State LR F-Class Championship at AEDC this past May, the same person who won the overall match was also a TN state resident, so it was a non-issue. That person took home both trophies - the TN trophy and the overall trophy. The reason I know this is because it was me. The year before that, at the spring AEDC LR F-Class State match, I was high resident but Jeff Traylor from Indiana was the overall winner. We both got trophies that year. Every year, trophies are also awarded for high junior, high senior, and high military/police. Just like with high TN resident, quite often these scores are not as high as the overall winner's score.

If the implication is that somehow I should feel ashamed because an out-of state F-Class National Team "ringer" shot a higher score than me last year, but I still took home a trophy as the best of all the in-state shooters, then I am sorry to disappoint you but I was proud, not ashamed. Likewise, I had nothing to do with organizing the ORSA match last month, but was Mr. Graham supposed to feel ashamed because he was high TN resident but another out-of-state ringer shot a higher score than him? I can tell you from sitting next to him that he was very proud. For those of us who live here and compete against each other frequently, it is a big deal to be the best shooter in the state. We don't care so much how the out-of-staters stack up since we don't know which ringers are going to make the drive for any given match, or shoot F-Open vs. F-T/R.

I think it is perfectly acceptable to have awards at a state championship for both the high resident and the overall winner. This gives more people an opportunity to win the apparently-much-coveted trophies. If another state does not have a state championship, or does it a different way than Tennessee, that is not our problem. We residents put a lot of work into arranging and conducting these state-championship matches. These NRA-Registered and state-association-approved state championship matches are typically the most difficult matches for the match directors to arrange in any given year. There is a lot more paperwork and also they require more non-shooting officiants in attendance. We are unpaid volunteers who simply want to provide an opportunity for others to shoot and keep the sport going. Typically, out-of-staters are not in a position to help with this, but their attendance is of course welcome nonetheless. We always want as many of the best shooters (local and non-local) to attend, especially so that less-seasoned beginners can learn from the best as they improve their skills. Anyone who is displeased about the specific trophy arrangements does not need to attend if that is a priority for them.

All I care about is becoming a better shooter. To be honest, I could give a crap about trophies and medals. I would give them all up in a heartbeat if I could instantly become as good of a shooter as Danny Biggs, Jim Murphy, or Dale Carpenter. Instead, I focus on becoming a better shooter by shooting as many matches with them as I can and learning from them whenever possible.

Fortunately, I have the opportunity to do so in Memphis in a few weeks so I will take full advantage. In my experience from going to "big-boy" matches like this past week in Lodi, or shooting LR prone at Perry, or Midwest Palma the last two summers at Lodi, when I was starting to feel a little too big for my britches at local matches in Tennessee all I needed was to attend a few of these "big-boy" national-level matches to be sufficiently humbled. I may not win a trophy to hang on my wall, but I damn well sure do learn a lot about becoming a better shooter.

 

[sailhertoo]

Did not mean to step on toes.

All I'm saying if you drive to a big State match and win, then a token would be nice for the match winner even if he can't claim State title.

 

[LongRanger]

While I agree with Morpheus' response to this:

'I wonder how it feels to be
"State Champian" and come in second place."

As another one who has cut it both ways winning state overall and state, and state without overall at least twice, and set 9 NRA national records, I would like to invite any and all to come to Memphis on the 22nd of October to find what it is like to test your mettle against this Southeast US, incl Indiana, Arkansas and Texas, hot bed of fantastic F class and prone shooters.

You take overall, or state and overall, and you did good, boy.... or girl.

Frank B.

 

[sailhertoo]

Sorry, but I have to respond to: I wonder how it feels to be "State Champian" and come in second place.

At the TN State LR F-Class Championship at AEDC this past May, the same person who won the overall match was also a TN state resident, so it was a non-issue. That person took home both trophies - the TN trophy and the overall trophy. The reason I know this is because it was me. The year before that, at the spring AEDC LR F-Class State match, I was high resident but Jeff Traylor from Indiana was the overall winner. We both got trophies that year. Every year, trophies are also awarded for high junior, high senior, and high military/police. Just like with high TN resident, quite often these scores are not as high as the overall winner's score.

If the implication is that somehow I should feel ashamed because an out-of state F-Class National Team "ringer" shot a higher score than me last year, but I still took home a trophy as the best of all the in-state shooters, then I am sorry to disappoint you but I was proud, not ashamed. Likewise, I had nothing to do with organizing the ORSA match last month, but was Mr. Graham supposed to feel ashamed because he was high TN resident but another out-of-state ringer shot a higher score than him? I can tell you from sitting next to him that he was very proud. For those of us who live here and compete against each other frequently, it is a big deal to be the best shooter in the state. We don't care so much how the out-of-staters stack up since we don't know which ringers are going to make the drive for any given match, or shoot F-Open vs. F-T/R.

I think it is perfectly acceptable to have awards at a state championship for both the high resident and the overall winner. This gives more people an opportunity to win the apparently-much-coveted trophies. If another state does not have a state championship, or does it a different way than Tennessee, that is not our problem. We residents put a lot of work into arranging and conducting these state-championship matches. These NRA-Registered and state-association-approved state championship matches are typically the most difficult matches for the match directors to arrange in any given year. There is a lot more paperwork and also they require more non-shooting officiants in attendance. We are unpaid volunteers who simply want to provide an opportunity for others to shoot and keep the sport going. Typically, out-of-staters are not in a position to help with this, but their attendance is of course welcome nonetheless. We always want as many of the best shooters (local and non-local) to attend, especially so that less-seasoned beginners can learn from the best as they improve their skills. Anyone who is displeased about the specific trophy arrangements does not need to attend if that is a priority for them.
All I care about is becoming a better shooter. To be honest, I could give a crap about trophies and medals. I would give them all up in a heartbeat if I could instantly become as good of a shooter as Danny Biggs, Jim Murphy, or Dale Carpenter. Instead, I focus on becoming a better shooter by shooting as many matches with them as I can and learning from them whenever possible.

Fortunately, I have the opportunity to do so in Memphis in a few weeks so I will take full advantage. In my experience from going to "big-boy" matches like this past week in Lodi, or shooting LR prone at Perry, or Midwest Palma the last two summers at Lodi, when I was starting to feel a little too big for my britches at local matches in Tennessee all I needed was to attend a few of these "big-boy" national-level matches to be sufficiently humbled. I may not win a trophy to hang on my wall, but I damn well sure do learn a lot about becoming a better shooter.

Red,a little contradiction there?

The part in yellow, you really sound a little unfriendly towards out of staters coming to Tn.

The blue part, are you the Tn. state spokesperson? I don't shoot for trophys but I do shoot to win. A throphy is something nice to remember the event by, even though you make light of it.

I think you took my post personally and I did not mean to attack you or any one else. If thats the way Tn. wants it, great for you guys. Keep it local and safe for yourself. I just happen to disagree with you. And so do some other states.

I hope you all have a very successful match and good weather. With all the great shooters thats going to be in attendance it will be a great time to watch/learn from some of the best. Good luck.

 

[allen529]

Sailhertoo,

This is directed towards you because you appear to be the one with an issue. If you want to be the TN State Champion then move to TN. Simple enough. Then you can travel around like all the rest of the ringers and win those other state titles and trophies you so covet for your "I love me wall". Oh and btw, there are several regional matches in TN where you can win all of the trophies if you happen to be the best man that day.

Some of us cant afford to travel out of state to other regions for their state championships. But getting to shoot against Biggs, Litz, Whidden, Traylor, and several other outstanding national competitors is a great experience. They dont seem to have a sportsmanship issue. They are not petulant or petty so enjoy your MS match. I wish you the best and hope they have wider door frames down there so you can fit through them.

Allen

 

[FroggyOne2]

I don't think that he got the message when I said that he will be missed.

 

[sailhertoo]

Sailhertoo,

This is directed towards you because you appear to be the one with an issue. If you want to be the TN State Champion then move to TN. Simple enough. Then you can travel around like all the rest of the ringers and win those other state titles and trophies you so covet for your "I love me wall". Oh and btw, there are several regional matches in TN where you can win all of the trophies if you happen to be the best man that day.

Some of us cant afford to travel out of state to other regions for their state championships. But getting to shoot against Biggs, Litz, Whidden, Traylor, and several other outstanding national competitors is a great experience. They dont seem to have a sportsmanship issue. They are not petulant or petty so enjoy your MS match. I wish you the best and hope they have wider door frames down there so you can fit through them.

Allen

Never said I did. Reading is fundamental. Go back and read my post. I was only making an obsevation between states. That is all.

Some of you Tn. guys are really touchy. And a little rude. I enjoy shooting Tn. and with most of the folks there.

I have shot seriously for the last two years and have won all of two matches in my lifetime. I don't know all the nuances of competition from state to state, reason for my asking. How I came to be labled an out of state "ringer" that wants to go state to state to gobble up everyone's prizes and hang them on my "I love me wall" if I can get them through my big ego Mississippi door jams is pretty ridicules.

 

[Rtheurer]

Gentleman
All posts above are not representatives of the Memphis Sport Shooting Assn. I would love to have all shooters come to Memphis and enjoy my Match. ( even though I will not be there) We have worked very hard at making it a pleasurable experience for EVERYONE. If you come over, up, down or what ever the case may be... you will be treated with the utmost of respect and kindness. Each and everyone of you have something in common with me and the Memphis crew.... We love to shoot and we love to eat. That in its self makes you a part of our family. I would give you my rifle and ammo to shoot if you needed it to finish the match.

We have an High Match winner. so if your out of state and win the whole enchalada you get a trophy that says MATCH WINNER TN state championship. So I dont see the confusion. There is also a trophy for the High TN Resident which may or may not be the overall winner... So yes you can win the State championship. But we reserve the right to have a High TN resident. North Dakota and I believe Minnasota also do this. We are not alone in our method. no big deal either way. just shoot and have fun.

Enough about this trivial un important uh hummm.... discusion and come enjoy some good food and some great shooting... a bad day at the range is STILL better than a good day at work....

I bet the guys are mowing burms, building targets, greasing cariers and preparing for your arrival as I type this. while im half way around the world enjoying the gold coast of Australia.... Ahhhh life is good.

Drive safe and shoot well.
Russ T

 

[falconpilot]

Trophy or no trophy, I'm going to Memphis to shoot against the best, including the current F-Class national champ, and the man who currently holds the 1000 yard national record of 200/15...when......if... a person beats these guys...better than any trophy....PRICELESS!! Come on up and test yourself...

 

[FroggyOne2]

Falcon, I will shake your hand when we meet there.

 

[falconpilot]

Looking forward to it Froggy!!! There's a Hooters(or so I'm told ;D) just down the street from the range. I'll buy you a beer!Of course, the beer is the only reason for going there!!

Just back from Texas State Championship...talk about taking a beating...Those guys are a tough crowd!!! If you looked at the top of the final list from the Nationals, those boys fill most the spots. Give one of them an inch, and you can bet your ass, they steal a mile from you ;D Great bunch of guys!!

 

[sailhertoo]

Gentleman
All posts above are not representatives of the Memphis Sport Shooting Assn. I would love to have all shooters come to Memphis and enjoy my Match. ( even though I will not be there) We have worked very hard at making it a pleasurable experience for EVERYONE. If you come over, up, down or what ever the case may be... you will be treated with the utmost of respect and kindness. Each and everyone of you have something in common with me and the Memphis crew.... We love to shoot and we love to eat. That in its self makes you a part of our family. I would give you my rifle and ammo to shoot if you needed it to finish the match.

We have an High Match winner. so if your out of state and win the whole enchalada you get a trophy that says MATCH WINNER TN state championship. So I dont see the confusion. There is also a trophy for the High TN Resident which may or may not be the overall winner... So yes you can win the State championship. But we reserve the right to have a High TN resident. North Dakota and I believe Minnasota also do this. We are not alone in our method. no big deal either way. just shoot and have fun.

Enough about this trivial un important uh hummm.... discusion and come enjoy some good food and some great shooting... a bad day at the range is STILL better than a good day at work....

I bet the guys are mowing burms, building targets, greasing cariers and preparing for your arrival as I type this. while im half way around the world enjoying the gold coast of Australia.... Ahhhh life is good.

Drive safe and shoot well.
Russ T

Thanks Russ

Sounds like a first class club you have. I'v never shot there but look forward to in the future. Hope y'all have a great match and good Tn BB-Q!

 

[Interrogator]

I agree with Rtheurer. There should be 2 trophies. If a person wins the match regardless of where he lives, he should get the recognition he deserves. The resident of the state where the match is held should also be recognized for his accomplishment. If you want to keep the match winner within the residents of the state, then the match should be advertised that way. Admittedly, you probably won't get many out of state shooters, but you will keep it in the state. A lot of shooters travel long distances to shoot in matches. If the match is advertised as residents only, then these folks will not bother to spend the money for gas and lodging to attend the match. I am a 600 yard/1000 yard Benchrest match director. We have 4 classes of rifles: Heavy Gun, Light Gun, Sporter (Factory), and AR type rifles. If you come to one of my matches and do well in your class regardless of where you live, you will be recognized for your achievement. In other words, it is a Benchrest match with no strings attached.

 

[falconpilot]

Allen,

Does "barrel tossing" eliminate one from being a good sportsman???

 

[morpheus]

Allen,

Does "barrel tossing" eliminate one from being a good sportsman???

No, it makes you a LEGEND!

 

[falconpilot]

In my own mind!!!

I'll steal that chance before someone nails me with it!!!

 

[allen529]

Falconpilot,

Not if I can buy that barrel too! lol I am looking forward to seeing you shoot and hearing all your new stories, ie.. yarns... lies. lol

I don't have a problem with Sailhertoo or anyone else especially on the range. I would even buy him a beer after the match. Things have been upside down that this is the only match I get to shoot this year so I am looking forward to it.

Allen

 

[allen529]

I agree with Rtheurer. There should be 2 trophies. If a person wins the match regardless of where he lives, he should get the recognition he deserves. The resident of the state where the match is held should also be recognized for his accomplishment. If you want to keep the match winner within the residents of the state, then the match should be advertised that way. Admittedly, you probably won't get many out of state shooters, but you will keep it in the state. A lot of shooters travel long distances to shoot in matches. If the match is advertised as residents only, then these folks will not bother to spend the money for gas and lodging to attend the match. I am a 600 yard/1000 yard Benchrest match director. We have 4 classes of rifles: Heavy Gun, Light Gun, Sporter (Factory), and AR type rifles. If you come to one of my matches and do well in your class regardless of where you live, you will be recognized for your achievement. In other words, it is a Benchrest match with no strings attached.

Interrogator,

The point of contention here is in all of the match announcements listed for months before a match so everyone knows before hand. That is how it has been done in all of the State Championships I have attended in TN. I have shot both the LR and MR matches. The overall match winner was announced and then the highest state residence is crowned State Champion. There are also regional matches held in all most all disciplines in Oak Ridge, Memphis, and Tullahoma. The high shooter wins no matter where they are from. It too is announced before hand.

I have read and reread all responses and even the ones I recieved through PM's. While my response to Sailhertoo may have been taken as rude by some it was as I am direct and to the point and there's no need to beat around the bush. If anything I think it was politely explained more than once before I finally said anything. Like Russ, who is a good guy, I welcome any shooter who wishes to shoot a match and if they are the best shot that day I will shake their hand to honor them as it should be regardless of where they are from. Also as Russ pointed out I do not speak for the MSSA. I only speak for me.

Good luck and shoot straight,

Allen

 

[jdfletch]

Wow, it's been some time since I've read this topic! I'd like to clarify and promise a few things about the match in Memphis Oct. 22-23:

Awards Clarification:
[list type=decimal]
[*]There are awards for both Overall and State Champion in Prone, F-O and F/TR. If you're from TN, you could win both.
[*]There are awards for High Service Rifle as we have a large number of SR shooters in the area.
[*]There are awards for High Junior, High Woman, High Police/LE (both Prone and F-Class).
[*]There are First Place Team awards for Service Rifle, Match Rifle, F-O and F/TR.
[*]We give out more awards than any place I know of other than the National Championships (not counting sponsorship giveaways like the Berger Nationals...).
[*]The purpose of the awards is to encourage participation, especially for those who may not normally be inclined to shoot in a mid-range competition (i.e. - Juniors, Women, LE and SR shooters...)
[/list]

Some Promises:
[list type=decimal]
[*]We have the best target carriers in the country. Come and try them and you'll see!
[*]You'll be treated to a great BBQ dinner on Saturday night.
[*]You'll shoot against some of the best shooters in the nation, many known and some unknown.
[*]You'll have a great time with other fellow shooters enjoying the great outdoors, hearing the report of rifles, feeling the jar of recoil in the shoulder, and smelling the scent of freshly burnt gunpowder. Oh, the joy!
[*]If Jim can find some others to join him, we'll find an award for the longest barrel chunking contest at the end of the matches on Sunday!
[/list]

Finally, we have made arrangements for a rate of $69.99/night at the Best Western Galleria in Memphis (901)372-0000. You MUST mention that you'll be there for the "MSSA Event". If you don't mention "MSSA", you won't get the rate.

Hope to see you there!

Doug