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Targets Vs Groups

I don't do it a ton anymore because it's usually a little boring for me now days. Like shooting a can @100yd, isnt really a challenge compared to shooting a group you know , I mean it can be fun don't get me wrong , especially if I have people to shoot against ( love plinking with my gf actually) or their some interesting targets or "rules" but you slap a 4" gong @100yd all day with a subpar load and half decent marksmenship.

The science experiment part of it like you said is why I absolutely love reloading and casting! Always something to fiddle and tweak and keep me wondering and annoyed :D
Ok, I do plink. At 600yds to 1 mile on steel! :)
 
In my experience having shot competitive NRA Precision (bullseye) for 30 years this not at all that unusual. In fact, it's fairly common. There are names coined for it, "chicken finger", fear of a bad shot, "target panic" etc. As you can imagine, the condition is magnified in pistol shooting.

Mental toughness in a bigger part of competitive and target shooting than many realize. The really good shooters have ice in their veins and have mastered match / target pressure with iron clad focus on the shot at hand. They can block out a poor shot and totally focus on the shot at hand.

When it comes to match shooting, the more matches you shoot the better you should be able to deal with match pressure. One technique I used in a match was not to look in the spotting scope during slow fire until the string was completed. The idea is so that you are totally focused on fundamentals and don't get distracted with the score of the shot or rattled if it's a bad shot. This is not recommended for practice since you should be calling your shots and trying to learn to improve your master of the fundamentals. But it has worked for me during a match.

Another technique is to mentally repeat your firing checklist each shot. In pistol shooting I would say, front sight focus, positive trigger action, follow through each and every shot. This keeps your mind focused on the shot at hand and helps block out other distractions. Incidentally such a technique can work in hunting shots too.

Visualization is another technique - visualizing the perfect shot. Often used in sports psychology.

Then there is the technique of convincing yourself that this is just a hobby - it's supposed to be fun not a job. When you make a poor shot, try to diagnose the reason. Treat a poor shot as an opportunity to learn, not a catastrophe. I learned long time ago to keep a range book and keep notes on each range session. It's a good way to learn and improve.

Because shooting at its base in an athletic endeavor, you will have ups and downs because of the bio-rhythm cycles of your body. Some disciplines minimize this effect by limiting the human element such as shooting off a bench with a front and rear rest but even this manner of shooting is subject to bio-rhythm cycles. The more the human element is involved, the more the effect of biorhythm. Precision pistol is one of the most difficult because you're using one hand standing with no artificial support.
Thank you ! I'll have to try and focus on more of this. I must ask since you seem pretty knowledgeable on this how do you feel getting some of those targets that hide your groups would help ? If forget what their called but they basically have all these patterns in the target to that you can't see your hits until you go and get your target. The snipers hide founder was talking about them with Eric Cortina on his pod cast as a way to help people . Think their something worth trying ?
 
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Ok, I do plink. At 600yds to 1 mile on steel! :)
Most I got I got is 400yd and absolutely love it but it's a bit had to get everything working right for me to be able to to shoot that :confused::confused: I will say though shooting out to 150 with my 22lrs is actually pretty dang fun !
 
My buddy had the same issue recently. I had built him a hunting rifle and it shot great. As he got closer to his big hunt, he started shooting progressively worse. He mentioned that he thought there was something going on with the rifle/load. I went out with him and the rifle shot under 1/4 moa. I told him to stop shooting groups and handed him a bunch of 5/8" orange sticky dots. I told him to shoot at those, one shot per dot. He called a few days later and said he was drilling the dots. The next time I saw him I looked at the target and found that if I superimposed all the dots onto one another, his collective 10 shot group was around 1/2"!

Sorry for the long story but it illustrates the fact that shooting groups can mess with your head at times. You might want to try something similar and see how it works for you.
Was actually thinking about something similar! Glad to here it works, I'll definitely be giving this a try !
 
Thank you ! I'll have to try and focus on more of this. I must ask since you seem pretty knowledgeable on this how do you feel getting some of those targets that hide your groups would help ? If forget what their called but they basically have all these patterns in the target to that you can't see your hits until you go and get your target. The snipers hide founder was talking about them with Eric Cortina on his pod cast as a way to help people . Think their something worth trying ?
Never used those targets but when I shot on our Army post team, if our scores started dropping or if we got into a rut, the instructor would make us shoot some drills at the back of the target with no bull. The idea was to re-establish first sight focus, trigger control, and follow through.

Typically, the aforementioned problems began to appear when the shooter held the pistol too long trying to make the perfect shot. It was known as "chicken finger", failure to apply positive trigger pull in an optimum time. This was often due to changing focus from the front sight to the target and switching back and forth causing tremors to develop in the shooting arm. Thus, shooting at the back target (no bull) helped the shooter relearn front sight focus, positive trigger action, and follow through by eliminating the "fear" of making a bad scoring shot.

So, to specifically answer your question you may want to try a target with scoring circles inscribed on a blank sheet of paper, no bullseye. This will get you to relearn focusing on the cross hair, not the bullseye and focusing on the other fundamentals such as trigger control and follow through. You can make these targets easily with power point graphic software or just take a piece of computer paper and use a compass to draw the appropriate size circles. Sometime when you are struggling to shoot well you get in a hurry to look at the target after the shot and forget to follow through.
 
Make sure that your rifle rest and even bench setup and technique are solid enough to allow for shooting groups. Make it so that it takes a lot of the "you" out of it. Good solid front rests or bi-pods along with a rear bag that packs so that when you center on the x and start the firing process your gun can't move as you get nervous. Rear bags, especially squeeze bags make a HUGE difference. Amazon bags will not work here. Go with something of higher quality. I know, it's easier said then done ; )
I would start with this.
And, are the shots going where you called them? Are you calling your shots? 'Call' means you actually saw where the front sight/reticle was pointing when you released the shot. Doesn't count if "it seems like it was" where ever.
If the shots are going where you called, then your set up and 'bench manners' are in good shape.
Then, work on the mental part.

I would bet that when you get nervous you are tending to not watch the front sight/reticle.
 
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Since I primarily shoot Mid-range TR , I had to think how to approach a answer for this . The objective in TR is simple . Shoot more Ten's and X's than your competitor . The basic "Goal" is every shot to be a X . And the "End Result" to be your "Group". S if you are shooting shot number 1 , concentrating on a X , and you get a 3 o'clock Ten on the edge of the X-ring , three clicks left , and shoot a X . At least theoretically .

In other words ; Stop trying to "shoot" tight groups , and shoot good individual shots . The "Group will develop all by itself . And just like in high level tournament Golf , once the shot is gone .....It's GONE ! Next shot now becomes the only relevant shot .
 
I would start with this.
And, are the shots going where you called them? Are you calling your shots? 'Call' means you actually saw where the front sight/reticle was pointing when you released the shot. Doesn't count if "it seems like it was" where ever.
If the shots are going where you called, then your set up and 'bench manners' are in good shape.
Then, work on the mental part.

I would bet that when you get nervous you are tending to not watch the front sight/reticle.
Ok so as stupid as this my sound, I really don't quite get calling shots . Mabye it's because I'm too indecisive but I don't really feel like I can probably call one I guess. Until I'm able to say have a scope cam and go back and watch a few times where my reticle went when I pulled the trigger I just feel like I'm guessing. Like I know some people can just replay in there minds that whole little shot but I just can't for the most part
 
Ok so as stupid as this my sound, I really don't quite get calling shots . Mabye it's because I'm too indecisive but I don't really feel like I can probably call one I guess. Until I'm able to say have a scope cam and go back and watch a few times where my reticle went when I pulled the trigger I just feel like I'm guessing. Like I know some people can just replay in there minds that whole little shot but I just can't for the most part
It was way easier to do with iron sights, like in service rifle. Especially when the targets go down. You are looking so intently at the front sight with the target blurry when the shot breaks you can remember where you last saw it easily. Its harder with a scope and being able to see the impacts. Kinda distracting.

This leads me to ask if one should stare at the cross hairs in a scope and have blurry target, or look at the target while super imposing the cross hairs...
 
Ok so as stupid as this my sound, I really don't quite get calling shots . Mabye it's because I'm too indecisive but I don't really feel like I can probably call one I guess. Until I'm able to say have a scope cam and go back and watch a few times where my reticle went when I pulled the trigger I just feel like I'm guessing. Like I know some people can just replay in there minds that whole little shot but I just can't for the most part

This leads me to ask if one should stare at the cross hairs in a scope and have blurry target, or look at the target while super imposing the cross hairs...
The cross hairs - same principle as open (iron sights)
 
Ok so as stupid as this my sound, I really don't quite get calling shots . Mabye it's because I'm too indecisive but I don't really feel like I can probably call one I guess. Until I'm able to say have a scope cam and go back and watch a few times where my reticle went when I pulled the trigger I just feel like I'm guessing. Like I know some people can just replay in there minds that whole little shot but I just can't for the most part
It's not stupid. You just need to learn how to do it and as you shoot more and continue to call your shots you will get better at it.

You should have a mental image of where the reticle was when the shot broke. Was it in the bull, high right, low left, etc. Verify your call. If it where you called it, then what went right or what when wrong. You will start of establish a visual and mental image of a good shot and poor shot. For example, for a poor shot, did you failed to follow through, did you not exhibit good trigger control, did you lose visual on the reticle and instead focused on the target, and / or did you "ride" the recoil, etc.

Sometimes, even for experienced shooters, you'll miss a call. But the more you shoot and learn to call your shots you'll get much better at it and in doing so will be able to diagnose the cause of a good and poor shot and learn to make corrections.
 
If you lose sight of the reticle, you have no chance of hitting the 10 ring.
I believe it! I read a Carlos Hathcock book in high school. In that book he was quoted "burn the reticle into your brain and find the square in the intersection of the crosshairs.
 
If you lose sight of the reticle, you have no chance of hitting the 10 ring.
This^^.
If you're not seeing where the reticle/front sight was pointing when you released the shot, how do you know where the shot went?

It can help to practice watching the front sight/reticle in dry fire. The key is to be watching the front sight/reticle as you squeeze the trigger. While doing this, it's critical that the front sight/reticle not move as the trigger is released.

Without developing this skill, your groups won't get smaller.
 
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If you do not trust your ammo and your gun, then you cannot call your shot. If they are up to task, shoot with purpose enough and you will know when you screwed the pooch on a shot before the bullet hits the target.

If you struggle shooting good, then you have to get your technique ironed out before you start worrying about calling shots.

You have to master breathing and body control. Saying you get nervous and see your heart jumping means you have identified part of your problem. Learning how to calm yourself is what separates the wheat from the chaff. That’s the same in a lot of sports.

Last, looking at your 22 target, has anyone shot that gun with that ammo enough to comfortably say that the groups you are getting are subpar? I am no expert, and have just started shorting a 22 lr. But, I can tell you that with the wrong ammo, you may get one or two decent groups and then get bad groups like the ones you posted.
 
POA vs POI
Shooting for group, why is that folks want to blow up their point of aim. Not talking about shooting for score, just group size.
I don’t care where my impact as, that is fixable easy enough. If say your first several shots totally wipe out your POA, how does one know where to hold. I have tried to hold center, but always seems I nick an edge and make that hole larger, which is now my point of aim. Now my 1/2”-3/4” dot is gone and my hole I am trying to shoot through is about 1-1 1/4”. Sounds simple, bigger hole to shoot through, never works for me.

Thus I use a stick on dot, my impact is say high and right. I can and do shoot some pretty serious groups when I have all the planets in alignment.
 

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