Taking Back Ammo from USA

[hunter686]

I'm heading to Texas in April and are planning on picking up some rounds. Most likely the 147gr ELD-M. As they are classified as soon target bullets I have no restriction on my tickets buy does anyone know if I will run into any problem's taking them back to Scotland with me?

 

[CJ6]

See what restrictions Scotland has for importing them..

 

[hunter686]

See what restrictions Scotland has for importing them..

Getting them into Scotland is no problem. It's leaving the states with them is where I'm confused. I don't fancy turning up with 2k rounds of A-max only for my cell mate to have the same nickname.

 

[shortgrass]

As far as I know, at this point ammo is still on the USML and export is still regulated by the ITAR (International Traffic in Arm Regulations). There's probably a 'number' (of rounds) stated somewhere, but Lord only knows where. I'd suggest a written request submitted to DHS/Customs for the regulation/ruling, but it might take 3-6 months to get a reply. For as much ammo as you're talking about, you'll probably have to go through a company that specializes in exporting items for companies and individuals.

 

[hogpatrol]

I'm heading to Texts in April and are planning on picking up some rounds. Most likely the 147gr ELD-M. As they are classified as soon target bullets I have no restriction on my tickets buy does anyone know if I will run into any problem's taking them back to Scotland with me?

Like shortgrass posted, ITAR will more than likely be a gotcha. That and dealing with clueless gate agents and TSA personnel could turn in to a real "film at 11" incident. Brownell's ships target bullets internationally. I would check with them.

I just re-read your post. Are you taking live ammo or just projectiles? If ammo, you are limited to 5 kilos OF AMMO in some type of container that holds them where they can't rattle around loose, like an ammo box, no plastic bags. They must be in checked bags, no carry on. These are ICAO regs, so generally speaking, countries and airlines don't matter, it's five kilos not including the containers. In to Scotland? You're on your own there.

 

[Ggmac]

I would call Norman Clark gunsmithing , I'm sure you have heard of him if not pm me for his tele and address . He helped me export some stuff to the UK

 

[shortgrass]

Like shortgrass posted, ITAR will more than likely be a gotcha. That and dealing with clueless gate agents and TSA personnel could turn in to a real "film at 11" incident. Brownell's ships target bullets internationally. I would check with them.

I just re-read your post. Are you taking live ammo or just projectiles? If ammo, you are limited to 5 kilos OF AMMO in some type of container that holds them where they can't rattle around loose, like an ammo box, no plastic bags. They must be in checked bags, no carry on. These are ICAO regs, so generally speaking, countries and airlines don't matter, it's five kilos not including the containers. In to Scotland? You're on your own there.

If the State Dept./DDTC can't figure out if a chambering reamer is 'munitions', or not.........

 

[shortgrass]

I gotta' question, just where is Texts?

 

[DRNewcomb]

I don't know the answer to the question but a club I once belonged to had a postal match with a club in UK and sent them a batch of US NRA rifle targets. The UK post office forwarded them to the local police station and the UK club's representative had to pick them up at the station because return address on the box was from a rifle and pistol club. That's my point of reference for dealing with the craziness of international shooting regulations.

 

[hunter686]

Like shortgrass posted, ITAR will more than likely be a gotcha. That and dealing with clueless gate agents and TSA personnel could turn in to a real "film at 11" incident. Brownell's ships target bullets internationally. I would check with them.

I just re-read your post. Are you taking live ammo or just projectiles? If ammo, you are limited to 5 kilos OF AMMO in some type of container that holds them where they can't rattle around loose, like an ammo box, no plastic bags. They must be in checked bags, no carry on. These are ICAO regs, so generally speaking, countries and airlines don't matter, it's five kilos not including the containers. In to Scotland? You're on your own there.

It would be projectiles (140/147 ELD-M) for reloading. 5 Kilos is ok! That's about 500 rounds. In the Uk that would cost us $330 in your money - if you can find them. ITAR only mentions expanding as far as i know. Can't seem to see any legislation on sporting/target rounds.

I gotta' question, just where is Texts?

It's right next to Texas in the Autocorrect territory ;p

If the State Dept./DDTC can't figure out if a chambering reamer is 'munitions', or not.........

I really hope not! I have mate taking me over a reamer in April :S

 

[DRNewcomb]

I really hope not! I have mate taking me over a reamer in April :S

Take it out of the box, wrap it in bubble wrap with a label that says "Machine tools". Regulations are crazy. In the US if you carry a wood screw for a screen door onto a plane, no problem, if the screw fits a rifle butt-stock, it's a felony. Go figure.

 

[Sniper338]

You should be able to call US customs to get an answer for the US. Getting someone competent is another story, but they should be able to get answers.

 

[wwbrown]

ITAR are the regs you may run afoul of and the only group who can give you a sound read on that is the State Department as they enforce and interpret what items are ITAR and which aren't. I have a hunch they will say you need an export license to export them, you are taking them out of the country so you are exporting them. Get paperwork from the State department if they say it is OK without the license so the agents at the airport in the US have something to go on so they are not making the decision putting them at risk if they guessed wrong. I spent about 4 years exporting mil hardware to the UK and I doubt you will be able to take more than $100 worth of gun-related stuff out without a license.

Keep in mind these rules are federal as such they do not have to make sense and often times do not.

Long story short: call the ITAR folks at the State Department

wade

 

[hunter686]

Take it out of the box, wrap it in bubble wrap with a label that says "Machine tools". Regulations are crazy. In the US if you carry a wood screw for a screen door onto a plane, no problem, if the screw fits a rifle butt-stock, it's a felony. Go figure.

The guys is flying with a seen of bagpipes so the reamer will be in terms case with them. Most folk don't even bother asking you what they are so a reamer in amongst all of that shouldn't be a problem. But I'll get him to bubble wrap it not the less

 

[hunter686]

ITAR are the regs you may run afoul of and the only group who can give you a sound read on that is the State Department as they enforce and interpret what items are ITAR and which aren't. I have a hunch they will say you need an export license to export them, you are taking them out of the country so you are exporting them. Get paperwork from the State department if they say it is OK without the license so the agents at the airport in the US have something to go on so they are not making the decision putting them at risk if they guessed wrong. I spent about 4 years exporting mil hardware to the UK and I doubt you will be able to take more than $100 worth of gun-related stuff out without a license.

Keep in mind these rules are federal as such they do not have to make sense and often times do not.

Long story short: call the ITAR folks at the State Department

wade

Looks like the long way for a shortcut but seems to be the best option so not to get "F'd but the long D of the law" Thanks Wade

 

[JRS]

"A DSP-5 export license is required for the permanent export of ammunition (to include components) unless an exemption applies". It appears the exemptions apply to U.S. citizens only.

 

[shortgrass]

ITAR are the regs you may run afoul of and the only group who can give you a sound read on that is the State Department as they enforce and interpret what items are ITAR and which aren't. I have a hunch they will say you need an export license to export them, you are taking them out of the country so you are exporting them. Get paperwork from the State department if they say it is OK without the license so the agents at the airport in the US have something to go on so they are not making the decision putting them at risk if they guessed wrong. I spent about 4 years exporting mil hardware to the UK and I doubt you will be able to take more than $100 worth of gun-related stuff out without a license.

Keep in mind these rules are federal as such they do not have to make sense an

Long story short: call the ITAR folks at the State Department

wade

And by the time you get a response from them a new Secretary of State will be in charge and everything might be different. Good luck getting anything in writing from the State Department/DDTC before your trip.

 

[Alexander-M]

Wade,
This may provide some answers and links:
https://www.ice.gov/cpi/faq

Also, the ITAR website may provide additional info:
https://www.pmddtc.state.gov/regulations_laws/itar.html

Good luck!
Alex

 

[hogpatrol]

And by the time you get a response from them a new Secretary of State will be in charge and everything might be different. Good luck getting anything in writing from the State Department/DDTC before your trip.

+100 on the state department mumbo jumbo. Regardless of who's in charge, ten different people will give you ten different answers. Hunters, me included, traveling outside the country last year had to deal with them and it was a total cluster****. Besides, their heads are spinning now that the travel ban has been put on hold. Their main thrust is with visas.

 

[DRNewcomb]

There's this: https://www.pmddtc.state.gov/licensing/documents/Guidelines_Firearms012013.pdf
It says that "U.S. persons" (not sure exactly what that means) may export up to 1000 rounds of ammunition for their personal sporting use, not for resale. The document is rather confusing regarding ammunition components.

I think your best bet may be a "One time exception letter" as shown on p. 12.