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Straight pull loading

This might be an obvious question but I can't find an answer to it.

I am about to start loading .223 (I load plenty of other calibres) and need a steer. I have a straight pull Spikes Tactical AR-15 (no semi autos allowed in England) with a 16" 1:9 barrel in .223 Wylde. Now, given that there is no gas port, should I use the Sierra reloading data for a bolt action gun or stick with the data for an AR-15 (I'm going to to load 69grn SMK).

Thanks a lot.

Nathan
 
That would depend on the chamber, if it's a Wylde or 5.56 chamber, I'd go up to the 5.56 data. If you have a barrel stamped 223 Rem, I'd stick with that. It's all about the lengthened throat on the mil chamber that allows a bit hotter loading.
 
The barrel is stamped .223 Wylde. My main issue though is as it is a single shot AR without a gas bleed off should I use the AR semi auto data or the bolt gun data as the is very different. The bolt data for N140 to get the bullet to 2700fps is 22.4grn of powder and the AR is 24.7grn. Don't want to use the AR data when it should be the bolt gun and make the gun go bang in a bad way!
 
I would contact Spikes and ask them what their upper requires in the way of feeding. Since you are not running in semi-automatic mode, the issues of gas curve and chamber fit that normally accompany AR reloads are not present. The Wylde chamber is throated for either .223 or 5.56 loads but I don't know about the pressure issues. I would start with reduced loads and work up toward higher, looking for accuracy nodes, just as I would with a bolt gun.

Cort
 
The interchangeability warning for the .223/5.56 came out in 1979 when the military came out with the M885 ammunition and the longer throated barrels. The length of the throat is the controlling factor for chamber pressure, and your brass cartridge cases have different strength/hardness requirements and pressure ratings.

Commercial .223 cases do not meet military spec requirements and will not take as much pressure as a mil-spec case. As stated above do a work up load starting at the bottom and work up, your fired cases will tell you a story.

The .223 and 5.56 service pressure load data are controlled by the throat, my stock factory Savage .223 rifle has a longer throat than my AR 15s do and shooting military M885 ammunition is not a problem. Meaning the .223 loading data is base on older .223 rifles with a shorter throat and 1 in 14 to 1 in 12 twist rates, my Savage has a 1 in 9 twist and a longer throat.
 
I thought the wylde chamber was invented to address the issue with m855 ammo.His gun has a gas bleed to mimic the gas system.
 
Ah .... US respondents have (understandably) failed to grasp the OP's real issue here - which is all about primary extraction and hard extraction in manual versions of a rifle mechanism designed around semi-auto operation. While a conventional turn-bolt action incorporates a primary extraction cam to break the case-chamber seal as the bolt-handle is lifted, the AR mechanism entirely lacks this feature. In normal operation, gas operation gives a really hard and fast kick to the bolt which wrenches the fired case out of the chamber. Do the same job by hand using a modestly proportioned side handle and you can see the bolt stick pretty well closed fast if you have a tight case. This partly depends on the nature of the case's brass alloy, but mostly on pressures generated by the load.

What Nathan wants to know is which set of data he should use bearing in mind that while Brit straight-pull ARs are technically 'bolt-action rifles', they're not so far as extraction goes in the same camp as a Remy 700 etc. He should have asked this question on a British forum, there being plenty of straight-pull savvy members on UKVarminting.co.uk for instance, Mark Bradley and Dave Wylde both of whom build straight-pull ARs professionally as well as using them in Service Rifle, Practical Rifle and McQueens competitions.

In general terms, some versions of the NATO / US M855 62gn milspec factory round work fine in these rifles, while others provide problems. I found Brazilian CBC Magtech M855 worked excellently, but most UK manufactured RG was right on the margins with some batches being really 'tight' in the chamber - not that I ever had much desire to use RG ammo in a well-built rifle with a good match quality barrel. Since NATO ammo is loaded at around 60-61,000 psi, you can see that the lower figure is the maximum, or a tad above, that which the straight-pull user should be aiming for.

I mostly loaded 80s in my straight-pull AR shooting days, but I obtained very good results and easy extraction with 23-24.7gn Viht N135 and the same charge weight range of Hodgdon H4895 with 69s. Referring those back to the Sierra manual which lists H4895 with the 69gn SMK shows I ended up running just around / above the max load listed for the AR and maybe half a grain down on the 'bolt-action' max load. However, this was 9 years ago and I was using the then standard production Lapua case - very thick-walled and with significantly lower capacity than today's Lapua Match 223 case or Winchester models. They (the old Lapua) would produce higher pressures with a given charge and produce sticky extraction at an earlier stage than current Lapua or most US manufactured brass. (I'd also say don't use RG brass, although some do. Also, HPS Target Rifle Ltd's German MEN Brass is very high quality, but is also thick-walled and hence lower capacity needing reduced - by ~0.5gn - loads.)

Running my actual load combinations through QuickLOAD showed my finalised match load pressure figures were in the 56,000-58,000 psi range and that's what I would work towards whenever trying a new combination.

In summary, use the AR data initially starting not much (1.0gn) below the listed maximum for whichever powder you're using, and work up in small (0.2gn) steps. You'll probably find you can go a little higher than that while retaining easy extraction - but do what the rifle tells you both in group size and bolt operation. The other factor is of course the chamber - how well it's been machined, and how well polished. A 'rough' chamber will cause problems at MUCH lower pressures than a really good one. You also need to bear primer piercing in mind - many AR match trigger / hammer assemblies see seriously cratered and even pierced primers at below absolute max chamber pressures. We don't get the hard cup milspec primers dveloped for semi-autos in the UK, so use SR magnum or BR models. I used the Remington 7 1/2 BR model for years with good results.
 
Laurie,
Great post, unfortanately you are correct, this was probably not the best forum for this question since here in the US we aren't forced to use manual operated gas guns.(at least not yet)
Aside from primary extraction issues, gas port pressures are as important as chamber pressure in an AR.
Either way I would start low and work up in powder charge, letting my gun tell me what it will digest.
 
Laurie,

Thanks for the new insight. Educated guesses are never as good as real life experience! I hope we here in the U.S. never have to experience your restrictions while we enjoy our shooting activities. One never knows ...

Cort
 
Laurie,

That is spot on and exactly what I was getting at - thanks a lot for that. I have Viht 135, 140 and 540 at home so I will give those loads a go.

Nathan
 

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