Still confused on f class classifications

[swd]

Although some use the classification system as a measure of their progress, I personally find it a little nebulous for that purpose. One can never know the prevailing wind conditions where other competitors shoot most of the time, so the average "degree of difficulty" of the range on which they earned a given classification is almost impossible to determine. I currently hold a High Master classification in midrange F-TR. However, I more than capable of shooting scores far below that level when the wind conditions are challenging .

This!!!^^ I know of at least one range in particular where if you earned a LR Expert there you could easily be as good as a High Master at a few other ranges. Like Falfan said it's at times more about bragging rights...

 

[Falfan2017]

I really need to get to more ranges. I regularly shoot at 3 and at each of them the regulars there swear that their range has the toughest wind conditions in the world.

 

[swd]

While not my home range, Palomino in the Reno NV area is open high desert and the wind just howls over there! Gusts to 45 mph certain times of the year are not uncommon. And they shoot 600 and 1K.

 

[Falfan2017]

While not my home range, Palomino in the Reno NV area is open high desert and the wind just howls over there! Gusts to 45 mph certain times of the year are not uncommon. And they shoot 600 and 1K.

Havent shot out west. I’m in the south east based in Mississippi. Shoot at a range on the gulf coast that’s always got something blowing. Never really below 10-12 and gets up to 30 with switches. That ones predictable. You kind of know the prevailing condition and then just have to watch for pick ups and let offs.
The laurel range has less powerful wind and gusts but is less predictable.

 

[rardoin]

David, once obtained one's classification remains unless the next higher class obtained or one petitions the NRA for a downward class in the case of disability affecting performance or absence from shooting for a period of years.

 

[dcali]

The 120 shots necessary for moving up in classification must be in chronological order, if fired in more than a single match. Otherwise, it would simply go off your highest 120 shots, regardless of when they occurred, or were actually received by the Competition Office.

You' think. But the last time I got a new card, it was with out of order matches. They did it int he order that they received the paperwork, not the date of the matches.

 

[Ned Ludd]

You' think. But the last time I got a new card, it was with out of order matches. They did it int he order that they received the paperwork, not the date of the matches.

It's not supposed to be that way. Nonetheless, I just checked the rules and I would have to say that you are correct. The writing on this point is a little nebulous, to say the least, in addition to being heavily gender-biased LOL (text highlighted in red):

• 19.17 Reclassification—A competitor who has been classified by the NRA will be reclassified as follows:

(a) NRA Headquarters will record all scores which qualify for classification purposes according to Rule 19.4.

(b) A competitor will be considered for reclassification upward when his most recently reported scores, for not less than 240 shots (120 shots for Prone Classification), fired subsequent to the tournament date at which he earned his current classification, have been recorded prescribed, except that such consideration will not include tournament or league scores until after all scores for the tournament or league competition concerned have been recorded. If his average score so justifies, he will be reclassified upward accordingly.

My [possibly foggy] recollection is that the word consecutive was used at some point. If not, it should be, as the above wording can clearly be interpreted as taking the scores in the order reported. So IMO - the rules clearly should be worded as 120 consecutive points. Otherwise, it is possible in some instances to obtain a higher classification merely by shooting at a certain classification's level in two separate matches as you described, but not necessarily two matches in a row. Having to shoot a higher classification score for 120 consecutive points makes it much more challenging, and provides a better demonstration IMO that someone has actually improved to the point they have earned the higher classification.

 

[dcali]

It's not supposed to be that way. Nonetheless, I just checked the rules and I would have to say that you are correct. The writing on this point is a little nebulous, to say the least, in addition to being heavily gender-biased LOL (text highlighted in red):

• 19.17 Reclassification—A competitor who has been classified by the NRA will be reclassified as follows:

(a) NRA Headquarters will record all scores which qualify for classification purposes according to Rule 19.4.

(b) A competitor will be considered for reclassification upward when his most recently reported scores, for not less than 240 shots (120 shots for Prone Classification), fired subsequent to the tournament date at which he earned his current classification, have been recorded prescribed, except that such consideration will not include tournament or league scores until after all scores for the tournament or league competition concerned have been recorded. If his average score so justifies, he will be reclassified upward accordingly.

My [possibly foggy] recollection is that the word consecutive was used at some point. If not, it should be, as the above wording can clearly be interpreted as taking the scores in the order reported. So IMO - the rules clearly should be worded as 120 consecutive points. Otherwise, it is possible in some instances to obtain a higher classification merely by shooting at a certain classification's level in two separate matches as you described, but not necessarily two matches in a row. Having to shoot a higher classification score for 120 consecutive points makes it much more challenging, and provides a better demonstration IMO that someone has actually improved to the point they have earned the higher classification.

The only reason I found this out is because I got some matches out of order, and I was classified in a strange way (I was assuming the match order was used, because that's what makes sense). I guess that's the NRA for you. It also seems weird that league scores are considered one match. To me, it seems most logical to take ANY 120 consecutive shots worth of matches, regardless of what sort of match. Once that happens, you get a new card. It seems like the paperwork required would not substantially change.

 

[Ned Ludd]

The only reason I found this out is because I got some matches out of order, and I was classified in a strange way (I was assuming the match order was use, because that's what makes sense). I guess that's the NRA for you. (It also seems weird that league scores are considered one match, but that's another issue.

Yeah - maybe they're merely assuming that scores are reported in the exact same order as that in which they were fired, which is like finding the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, or actually catching a leprechaun and making him give you free stuff.

Regardless, it seems to defeat the purpose of requiring a minimum of 120 points, if they don't have to be fired in consecutive order. It also seems to be pretty capricious - I can recall a few instances where my F-TR Long Range classification could have easily benefitted from a few mis-ordered match score reports LOL, but such was not to be.

 

[rardoin]

If not taken from consecutive matches it could certainly go against a shooter too....

 

[Highpower-FClass]

Thanks for the replies that is interesting. Does your classification change downwards as well? Is it a rolling average.
In Australia if the class you are shooting in has grades we use a rolling average of your last 8 competition scores. To try and mitigate the different weather conditions the score you achieve is a % and it is a % of your score against the highest score for that class in that competition for the day.

Classifications do not average downwards. Once you reach a certain classification you remain at that classification until you move up, or reach High Master which is the highest classification.

One can request to be down-classified by contacting the NRA but I have never heard of this occurring. From the rulebook regarding reclassifying downwards:

19.17 Reclassification
..
..
..
(c) A competitor will be reclassified downward only upon request a request in writing by him to the NRA, and only on the basis of at least 320 shots (180 shots for Prone Classification) recorded as prescribed, fired subsequent to the effective date of his current classification. If his average on this basis so justifies he will be reclassified downward accordingly.

(d) If after reclassification downward, a competitor regains the classification thus vacated, he will not again be reclassified below the latter.

So one would only be able to go down and sandbag once

One additional consideration for NRA classifications is that they do expire if you do not shoot a match in either 3 or 5 calendar years:

19.9 Obsolete Classifications and Scores
All classifications and scores (including temporary, Rule 19.14) except Master, shall become obsolete if the competitor does not fire in NRA competition within the discipline in which the classification was earned, at least once during three successive calender years. Master classifications and scores shall become obsolete if the competitor does not fire in NRA competition of the appropriate discipline at least once during five consecutive calender years.

 

[Bob L.]

If not taken from consecutive matches it could certainly go against a shooter too....

I think this is what happened to me for long range. Last year I shot a 594 and then a 582, just like the example on the first page. I am still waiting for my high master card (and haven’t been close to doing that again since).
It ain’t fair, I tell ya.
I coulda been a contender. I coulda been somebody. Instead, I’m a bum.

 

[Falfan2017]

I think this is what happened to me for long range. Last year I shot a 594 and then a 582, just like the example on the first page. I am still waiting for my high master card (and haven’t been close to doing that again since).
It ain’t fair, I tell ya.
I coulda been a contender. I coulda been somebody. Instead, I’m a bum.

Missed your chance on Saturday! Conditions were nice and calm but with heavy mirage later in the morning.

 

[Ned Ludd]

I think this is what happened to me for long range. Last year I shot a 594 and then a 582, just like the example on the first page. I am still waiting for my high master card (and haven’t been close to doing that again since).
It ain’t fair, I tell ya.
I coulda been a contender. I coulda been somebody. Instead, I’m a bum.

You should be glad. My last long range F-TR score was "Master", but then I moved to a locale where the nearest 1000 yd range is about 6 to 7 hr drive, and thus I haven't been to a LR match in some time. I recently looked up my LR classification and was surprised to discover that instead of still working off that last "Master" match score, I am no longer classified at all. I guess that makes me even less than a bum .

 

[swd]

You should be glad. My last long range F-TR score was "Master", but then I moved to a locale where the nearest 1000 yd range is about 6 to 7 hr drive, and thus I haven't been to a LR match in some time. I recently looked up my LR classification and was surprised to discover that instead of still working off that last "Master" match score, I am no longer classified at all. I guess that makes me even less than a bum .

Oh man I’d be like heroin addict going through withdrawals to be that far from a 1k range. I feel for you!

 

[drop_point]

I was just reading the F-Class rules again and curious what I would rank. Is this still something the NRA does? I'm assuming not.

 

[Jeff Porter]

Competition office still tracks the scores for matches that are official NRA matches and the scores get sent to NRA. Around where I shoot , a lot of clubs have gone away from using NRA to sanction the matches and are using CMP or USHPA that have less expensive match fees.

 

[Walt Krafft]

You can go on the nra competition sight and see all the scores that have been submitted

 

[Jennb]

It's not supposed to be that way. Nonetheless, I just checked the rules and I would have to say that you are correct. The writing on this point is a little nebulous, to say the least, in addition to being heavily gender-biased LOL (text highlighted in red):

• 19.17 Reclassification—A competitor who has been classified by the NRA will be reclassified as follows:

(a) NRA Headquarters will record all scores which qualify for classification purposes according to Rule 19.4.

(b) A competitor will be considered for reclassification upward when his most recently reported scores, for not less than 240 shots (120 shots for Prone Classification), fired subsequent to the tournament date at which he earned his current classification, have been recorded prescribed, except that such consideration will not include tournament or league scores until after all scores for the tournament or league competition concerned have been recorded. If his average score so justifies, he will be reclassified upward accordingly.

My [possibly foggy] recollection is that the word consecutive was used at some point. If not, it should be, as the above wording can clearly be interpreted as taking the scores in the order reported. So IMO - the rules clearly should be worded as 120 consecutive points. Otherwise, it is possible in some instances to obtain a higher classification merely by shooting at a certain classification's level in two separate matches as you described, but not necessarily two matches in a row. Having to shoot a higher classification score for 120 consecutive points makes it much more challenging, and provides a better demonstration IMO that someone has actually improved to the point they have earned the higher classification.

With so few females in the sport we don’t consider that gender bias, we are just one of the shooters! Best compliment we can get is to be considered one of the shooters and not just a female.

 

[Dkk37058]

I’ve shot in matches with women they shot as good as any man and have won a bunch of matches. They do have a award for high woman shooter also for high seniors. Being old doesn’t put you at a disadvantage no more as being a woman.
Just my opinion