I usually buy all my reloading suplies in bulk and evey once in awhile the stash gets a little low...I was running out of hunting bullets and went shopping...HOLY COW...the prices are way way up..bullets that were $27 a box are now $40 !! Powder and primers were way up also..V-maxes went from $13 to 25 !! I must have missed something over the last few years of un-shopping..ARE "THEY" trying to put us out of business or what!!
Sticker shock !!!!!!
- Thread starter FrankintheLaurelMts
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Spotcheck_Billy
Rising copper prices are mostly to blame for the huge increase in the cost of bullets and brass. Ask any electrician or home builder about it.
Yes, the price of lead has increased. So has the cost of shipping, and that's due to rising fuel prices. But the rise in the cost of copper is the biggest culprit.
Yes, the price of lead has increased. So has the cost of shipping, and that's due to rising fuel prices. But the rise in the cost of copper is the biggest culprit.
Ok,.... I'll be the turd in the punch bowl,.....If you do the calculations, yes, some commodities have increased in price by 20 or 30 percent,, some a touch more) but how many of us think that commodities are the dominant factor in production cost of lets say,... brass cases. I speak not to lead shot as frgt and actual commodity cost are a relevant issue in that example. We should all consider that there are other forces at work with some of the price increases we have seen, some of them,,a percentage of all of them) are completely legitimate, but some of them are engineered based on what the market will bear. Problem with that philosophy is, the guy with 2.5 kids, a mortgage and other various payments, who was probably having a hard time legitimizing participating in a competitive shooting sport, will be left behind. I'm a competitive shooter, and I see it at matches, and I hear it on the phone constantly. Coupled with rising fuel costs and all things connected to fuel,,everything) we are losing shooters at an alarming rate.
I know, I know,.... we've all heard it before, but we need to look at this problem with a somewhat more critical point of view.
I know, I know,.... we've all heard it before, but we need to look at this problem with a somewhat more critical point of view.
Very good point Rifle1 about losing shooters. The cost of traveling to, and competing in a typical NRA match has risen significantly in recent years. Ammo. Fuel. Motel. Food.
It all adds up. Last year I shot only at my home range/club. It's close, so it's only ammo/component prices that affect me there.
At one point I was trying to shoot at least a half dozen matches a year, now I'm back down to one or two. Some of that is due to my own crammed schedule, some of it is due to the rising cost of shooting. I've found myself buying and burning a mountain of .22 rimfire ammo in recent years, as opposed to loading and shooting a large quantity of centerfire rifle ammo.
At least match fees haven't gone up much, if at all, for our local NRA matches. I suspect that's about to change though.
Regards, Guy
It all adds up. Last year I shot only at my home range/club. It's close, so it's only ammo/component prices that affect me there.
At one point I was trying to shoot at least a half dozen matches a year, now I'm back down to one or two. Some of that is due to my own crammed schedule, some of it is due to the rising cost of shooting. I've found myself buying and burning a mountain of .22 rimfire ammo in recent years, as opposed to loading and shooting a large quantity of centerfire rifle ammo.
At least match fees haven't gone up much, if at all, for our local NRA matches. I suspect that's about to change though.
Regards, Guy
Spotcheck_Billy
RIFLE1 said:
I don't want to engage in a pissing contest here, and agree that we're losing shooters rapidly.
But if you don't think that rising commodity prices are to blame for the huge increase in the cost of bullets and brass you're living in a different world than I am. 20 to 30 percent and maybe a touch more? Please get in touch with what's really happening. Just as an example I'll cite the fact that copper prices have doubled in the past year on the world market, with a 79 percent increase in the six month period ending August 2006! If that's not the main factor behind the increase in the price of bullets and cases it must be some kind of left wing conspiricy aimed at shooters
Your right, not to get into a pissing contest, but I think you should look at the copper perspective/speculative market for the last two years,.....it hasn't doubled.,key word is speculative) The real issue is, what is the cost percentage of raw materials in finished product? I think if you discount labor and related margin issues,....it is you that may mistaken. This isn't another oil company conspiracy theory. This is an entertainment/pleasure driven industry, and is financially operated as such. It could possibly be just a fundamental difference in philosophy as well. May be the case that we just have to agree to disagree.
no insult meant, hope none taken,......
no insult meant, hope none taken,......
Spotcheck_Billy
No insult taken.
I see proportionate wholesale increases in copper wire, tubing, and pipe. This has been going on for over a year. My suppliers also report increases in their cost of raw materials in the range that I quoted. I understand that bullet manufacturers have encountered the same increases.
We can agree to disagree
I see proportionate wholesale increases in copper wire, tubing, and pipe. This has been going on for over a year. My suppliers also report increases in their cost of raw materials in the range that I quoted. I understand that bullet manufacturers have encountered the same increases.
We can agree to disagree
Your right The cost of Copper hasnt doubled. It has Tripled & Quadrupeled starting back in late 2004 & early 2005. As a Plumber I see how Violent the market has been in the last few years. The wholesale suplier would only honor a Copper pipe & fittings price on a bid for cost estimate for 3 days at one point. So here you are bidding the new Super Walmart which is half a Million doller job & you cant get a solid answer on price of copper in next three months.
Of course the smaller the bullet maker the harder it will be on them.
Copper Prices are the Reason on bullets anyway.
At least the Market has stabalized even if it is high.
RT
Of course the smaller the bullet maker the harder it will be on them.
Copper Prices are the Reason on bullets anyway.
At least the Market has stabalized even if it is high.
RT
Damn,....maybe I'm thinking about this all wrong,.... but here I go again., as well, without saying, not a pissing contest. Just a discussion on ideology.)
Ok, we'll agree to disagree how the speculative market works when buying,...say brass cups on a 6 month forecast, which has been, and is still going on.
Calculate the the pure copper used in the alloy of say, a jacket cup, then calculate the the lead commodity cost invested in a core,.... lets say a 168 gr match bullet just to be generic. Let's just go crazy, and apply a cost of lets say, $3.50,way high) invested in copper content and maybe 2.82 to 2.90 or so in lead,.... where does that leave the percentages of raw material increase versus retail consumer price increase? Now, this isn't a fair comparison, because of course there are built in expenses for drawing wire, punching cups,...etc. What we are discussing here is not a 3-4 dollar increase on avg considering the change in cost over the last two to three years of above mentioned product. To be fair, we can't blame one producer either, everyone is looking around to see what the other guy is going to do in the way of price increases "based" on raw material costs. In my belief, it is market driven, but by the consumer market, not the raw material market.
If someone wanted to throw in fuel costs,... I'll bend a little, but that is a different facet on this discussion.
I hope those involved will continue this discussion, as it does let us see other points of view. I would never say I'm above being convinced else wise on this issue.
Ok, we'll agree to disagree how the speculative market works when buying,...say brass cups on a 6 month forecast, which has been, and is still going on.
Calculate the the pure copper used in the alloy of say, a jacket cup, then calculate the the lead commodity cost invested in a core,.... lets say a 168 gr match bullet just to be generic. Let's just go crazy, and apply a cost of lets say, $3.50,way high) invested in copper content and maybe 2.82 to 2.90 or so in lead,.... where does that leave the percentages of raw material increase versus retail consumer price increase? Now, this isn't a fair comparison, because of course there are built in expenses for drawing wire, punching cups,...etc. What we are discussing here is not a 3-4 dollar increase on avg considering the change in cost over the last two to three years of above mentioned product. To be fair, we can't blame one producer either, everyone is looking around to see what the other guy is going to do in the way of price increases "based" on raw material costs. In my belief, it is market driven, but by the consumer market, not the raw material market.
If someone wanted to throw in fuel costs,... I'll bend a little, but that is a different facet on this discussion.
I hope those involved will continue this discussion, as it does let us see other points of view. I would never say I'm above being convinced else wise on this issue.
I was at my local GANDER MT yesterday..looking at loaded ammunition I almost dropped over... Remington 300 SAUM ultra bullet..$59.99 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! For what, it's the same 30 cal bullet used by everything else..a few more grains of powder than the 30/06 and alittle bit more brass and multiple times the cost...someones buffaloing somebuddy !!
it has been disheartening to see the non-inflationary price increases since the last election. The extortion level is what ever the traffic will bear. Six months before the election, name brand and generic AR-15's were twice what what they are selling for now.
To the point that I bought a compound bow a couple years ago, and set up for a lot of my recreational entertainment.
My wife paid $120 for a dozen complete carbon fiber arrows for me (Christmas present) at the local archery pro shop at Christmas 2016. I have kept track, and each one of them has not been fired more than 600 times.
7200 rounds, total additional cost; a new string. = $80. Total cost $200.
Anybody care to guess what than many rounds of even the cheap 223 military surplus would cost...?
The dems won't have to restrict firearms and ammunition purchases; the ammo manufacturers will do it for them.
sigh...
Rich
To the point that I bought a compound bow a couple years ago, and set up for a lot of my recreational entertainment.
My wife paid $120 for a dozen complete carbon fiber arrows for me (Christmas present) at the local archery pro shop at Christmas 2016. I have kept track, and each one of them has not been fired more than 600 times.
7200 rounds, total additional cost; a new string. = $80. Total cost $200.
Anybody care to guess what than many rounds of even the cheap 223 military surplus would cost...?
The dems won't have to restrict firearms and ammunition purchases; the ammo manufacturers will do it for them.
sigh...
Rich
I just got back into shooting after 6 years + bought primers. Price has almost doubled.
But so has everything else, really.
I am amazed that bullets don't cost more, and the quality, selection, weights, choices & quality available is amazing. 1000 match bullets made in the USA, delivered to your door, in 3 days after a couple clicks on the keyboard, for $15.00 shipping.
awesome.
Those tiny bullets support the cost of the : salaries, taxes, bonuses, matching IRA plans, insurance, rent, utilities, marketing, legal fees, lawsuits and contingency for future claims, insurance, retooling, R&D, raw materials, health insurance, charity & gifts, revolving credit costs.
Profit necessary for return on the investment and $ at risk.
I'd be willing to bet the industrial & military contracts subsidize the recreational shooter to a large degree.
and...when you shoot, you are employing AMERICANS. Want to buy that dream BAT VR
for $1500? great. or buy a Savage (US made also)for $350 from Cabelas that shoots 1/2 moa also.
But so has everything else, really.
I am amazed that bullets don't cost more, and the quality, selection, weights, choices & quality available is amazing. 1000 match bullets made in the USA, delivered to your door, in 3 days after a couple clicks on the keyboard, for $15.00 shipping.
awesome.
Those tiny bullets support the cost of the : salaries, taxes, bonuses, matching IRA plans, insurance, rent, utilities, marketing, legal fees, lawsuits and contingency for future claims, insurance, retooling, R&D, raw materials, health insurance, charity & gifts, revolving credit costs.
Profit necessary for return on the investment and $ at risk.
I'd be willing to bet the industrial & military contracts subsidize the recreational shooter to a large degree.
and...when you shoot, you are employing AMERICANS. Want to buy that dream BAT VR
for $1500? great. or buy a Savage (US made also)for $350 from Cabelas that shoots 1/2 moa also.
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Just Dave
Gold $$ Contributor
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Is this a record for revival from the dead ? Holy smokes !
whoops. busted. I'll just go measure the headspace on my 22. lr ammo.
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hogpatrol
Gold $$ Contributor
The oldest resurrection I've noticed. How they get revived is beyond me. Maybe before coffee or too much coffee, I don't know.
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